even though it’s a free country I don’t think it’s right to not give service to some. That is why I won’t support anyone who refused service because of being gay. If they go in the store and order chicken let them have it. I know it’s a free country and they can refuse service but I don’t think it’s right.
@Babyboomerjill - I did not know anyone was refused service. That was not my understanding. I thought the head guy was just asked and said he supported the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Which, is his opinion, and has nothing to do with who eats at his restaurant. I think this whole thing has gotten blown WAY out of proportion!
@DanishDoll - I am such a rebel that I wonder what would happen if you went in there and said,”I want number one and i’m gay.”
@Babyboomerjill - No one was ever refused service.If you believe that then you are believing lies spread by people who just plain hate Christianity.Now,if someone goes into any resturant acting up and causing trouble for the resturant claiming they are gay and want service,causing other customers to be uneasy then yes,they should be denighed service and asked to leave.If you heard something on the news,that would be a part they would leave out.I take what I hear on the news with a grain of salt these days.It’s competition now on who can outscoop who,it isn’t news any longer.
Yes
@Babyboomerjill - Jilly they aren’t and have never refused service to anyone – my girls worked at the store in Rome and Savannah, Ga and not only do they not discriminate on whom they serve they don’t discriminate in their hiring either… this whole thing has been taken out of context but it sure hasn’t hurt their business.
@Babyboomerjill - If I had ANY resturant and when you said that and were rude about it and causing concern from other customers,I would ask you to leave.If someone goes into a resturant acting like that,they only want to cause trouble.Maybe its just me,but thats how I see it.
Only in American would this have become such a big deal, and only in the age of social media. Before Facebook, many of people complaining probably didn’t know what a CEO was!
I certainly do support Chik-Fil-A.
@Babyboomerjill - Why not try it Jill? Mr. Cathy has made it clear that it is his company’s policy never to discriminate against anyone, whether in terms of employment or service as a customer. I’m curious as to where you got the impression that this whole Chik-Fil-A debate is over some kind of discrimination being perpetrated by the company and/or its owner, do you have info54rmation to the contrary?
@Babyboomerjill - hahahaha – I bet someone already has but I’m pretty sure their response would be that’ll be $4.98 would you like waffle fries with that
@mlbncsga - @Somefishytales - I think that is wrong and if I were asked if I were gay?(even though I’m not)I would say,”yes,I am.” to see if they would serve me chicken in the same way they won’t serve african americans in the 1960′s. It’s wrong to make someone go to the back door to get food.
@AOK4WAY - If I went in and was asked if I were gay at Chickfa la before I ordered I would say yes on purpose just because I don’t think it’s right. The days of going to the back door to get food is over -that was back in the 1960′s.
@mlbncsga - I imagine the gays won’t go there or their friends or family now. I have gays in my family and also friends at the antique mall and it’s hard to work it into a life as a christian but I have to work it out and live with myself.
@Babyboomerjill - Okay, I’ll accept that. How many times have you gone into a Chik-Fil-A and been asked that question? How many people do you know who have? How many people have you heard of who have? Zero, zero and zero, right? You’re letting your imagination run away with you, friend, and you’re speaking unjustly about a company and a business owner who simply answered a question on his position in the debate surrounding same sex marriage. The man was asked what he thought, and he answered. That does not equate with discrimination. If you disagree with jhis position, say so, but don’t make false accusations and unjust judgments. Just have the courage to express your position in the debate like he did and be thankful that you and he both live in a country where it is still legal to do so.
it is about choices. he choses to think one way, i chose to not have my $ used to support that. they have never,that i know of,refused service to anyone based on their sexuality and i am sure that they have workers that are gay. each is a franchise that is independatly owed and cathy is the ceo of the company which some of the $ that is taken in by those franchises will go back to. the owners may not agree with cathy. at least 2 of the organizations that cathy gives $ to are hard line christain based and have been hard line advocates against same sex marriage. yes, some companies may say they support cathy, but to say you do and to do the same as him are two different things, i feel. it is a choice. one can make the choice to say what they believe in or where they shop.to me it is wrong to denie a place to open a business if their values are different from what you may believe. that is not against the law. i chose not to give my $ to places that i knowly will use it agaisnt things i beleive in. that is my choice. you have your choices and i will defend our ability to have those choices.
@AOK4WAY - freedom of speech is good but he -the CEO shouldn’t be surprized when people don’t want to go in his store.. As long as the chicken isn’t paid for by the goverment he can serve whoever he wants but when he’s state supported with chicken then he would be forced to serve all who come in. Yes, I agree that it’s still a free country and he can say whatever he likes.
@Babyboomerjill - Okay Jill, thanks for the friendly discussion and for taking the time to share your point of view with me. You and the family will be in my prayers today
@buddy71 - nicely said, I’m born and raised catholic and it’s hard for me to be a christian when I see my cousin go up to communion and know he’s gay and I tell my mother that I know that you aren’t suppose to recieve communion if you are committing a deadly sin but I say,”mom, he must not believe it is a deadly sin.”
@AOK4WAY - We can agree to disagree and I will pray for your soul also.
No I don’t support them. But for me it’s less about their beliefs and more about the fact that they sell shit food to the masses. And we wonder why 1/3 of Americans are overweight or obese.
Chick-Fil-A donates to & supports the Family Research Counsel, a hate group [officially labeled as such in 2010]. What does the Family Research Counsel have to say about gays?
“I think that the supreme court decision Lawrence v Texas which overturned sodomy laws in this country was wrongly decided. I think there would be a place for criminal sanctions for homosexual behavior. We should outlaw gay behavior.” -Peter Sprigg, Family Research Council, [Feb 2, 2012].
Sure, CFA has every right to donate to an organization that believes homosexuals belong in jail. I urge them to support any and all hate groups. Even the KKK if that’s what they choose. We are in America after all. I don’t want to be a part of it.
@Babyboomerjill - What part of Catholic teaching says it’s wrong to be a homosexual?
I’ve never been to one because I didn’t know we even had one, but now? No. I will not give my hard-earned money to a company who donates to groups that fight against freedom and equal rights. Furthermore, those signs are all fake: http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/chickfila.asp
The bottom line is this: Dan Cathey was asked what he thought about gay marrige–he gave his answer based on his beliefs. Period. No one was ever refused service, The Cathey’s are not anti gay or gay bashers or haters, and they never said they refuse to hire gays. Dan just stuck to his roots and what he believed. We are all entitled to our beliefs and opinons. I agree with Dan Cathy but I’m not a gay hater or racist/prejudiced. I simply agree with the Biblical concept of marriage being between a man and a woman. The issue here was never really about freedom of speech (Cathy just answered a question). It was about being bashed as a Christian for his beliefs. He’s entitled to his opinion/beliefs just like the rest of our country.
Interesting points of view..I think Chick-Fil-A has a right to express their opinion. I certainly wouldn’t stop eating there, We don’t have one anywhere around us so I can’t very well boycott them, and when I’m in the south, I will still eat there.
@Melissa___Dawn - I had my doubts about those signs….can’t imagine those competitors putting up signs like that.
@QuantumStorm - marriage is between a man and a woman the church says just like all the other christian religions.
@Babyboomerjill - Yes but what does that have to do with being a homosexual = a sin? I’ve never seen a Catholic church teaching that said that being a homosexual was a sin. If you could point me to that doctrine or canon law, I’d love to read it.
@QuantumStorm - If you were catholic you won’t be asking me. I think anyone gay is going to have a problem fitting in with any christian church because they all believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.
My mom doesn’t think our relatives are gay cause they go to church and go up to communion on sunday and I said,”mom, I guess they don’t believe that being gay is a mortal sin or they won’t get communion. My mom is old school when it comes to religion. She had 8 kids cause back then the church didn’t believe in birth control and the young people like myself didn’t see the b.c. pills as a mortal sin and took communion also. Every one has to work it out for themselves.
@Babyboomerjill - I am Catholic, and I am telling you, I’ve never encountered a church teaching that said merely being a homosexual was a sin. The fact that you and your mom believe otherwise says nothing of actual church doctrine, so, again, I invite you to point to actual church doctrine or canon law that ever said being a homosexual was a sin.
@QuantumStorm - that sounds like a challenge but I”m not really that interested. I love my relatives and friends and hope that there is a place for them in the catholic church.
@Babyboomerjill - I have quite a few friends who are practicing Catholics and are homosexuals – and are in good standing with the church. And from my knowledge, it’s not the orientation the church has an issue with, but rather the sex act in particular. Hence why I asked you what doctrine or canon law you were basing your claims on because it is completely unlike anything I’ve ever read in church canon law regarding the position on homosexuality.
It seems to me that there are some people these days who can’t seem to distinguish between a sexual orientation, and sexual acts.
Our belief system has a voice; to where we have to show up for support for what we stand for or not? Could God be testing us? It’s sad to see hatred and sad things said or written about what makes up a marriage. May God heal the hurt that’s there. May God help us all.
We all have our beliefs system: I always believe that a marriage is between a male man and a female woman. Marriage is a Covenant in which God is apart of the “Holy” marriage.
absolutely not. i don’t want my money supporting inequality.
@QuantumStorm - The Catechism of the Catholic characterizes homosexuality as “objectively disordered,” and goes on to say that homosexuals are called to a life of chastity.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I’m aware of that. That doesn’t mean that homosexuals are sinning merely by being homosexual.
@QuantumStorm - Sinning wasn’t the issue of your comment. You said “wrong”. A disorder is wrong though not necessarily immoral.
I think the gay rights movement wants beyond desperate for homosexuality to be accepted as normal.
Stating the obvious, that homosexuality is a disorder, is one way of saying that homosexuality is “wrong.” And that’s why gays go so wild at the very thought.
For if homosexuality is normal, then sodomy (gay fornication) is normal too.
Nope. Because of what their president supports. It’s one thing to have a belief, and it’s another, equally acceptable thing, in my opinion, to share a belief. What crosses the line, in my view, is trying to (or supporting those who are trying to) have a belief legislated that in no way protects anyone’s safety or well being.
Of course, the whole boycott thing is kind of ridiculous, in that people are so arbitrary about what they decide to stand up against. A lot of companies do, support, and cause a lot of things I don’t agree with. If I were to boycott all of them, it would be very difficult to live.
This sure has turned into a big mess and I wish people would put as much energy into helping homeless families get off the streets and be safe, warm and fed.
I don’t support Chick Fil-A, but they can support me, and only if they’re my undies, I need that extra support ya know ! Other than that I will have nothing more to do with them.
Lessee … that’s =2= restaurants banned for life now. It’s only a matter of time until society as we know it falls into the depths of anarchy and ruin !
I recommend Granny’s-Place post (and yes I do charity work at the church so I know all about feeding those homeless people).
░▒▓ Granny’s-Place does not allow recommendations ?? But I agree with her ! Augh ! Life is so complex, that’s why there’s cupcakes !
@QuantumStorm - There seem to be more than one kind of Catholic Church in America. I say this because in some places the Catholic Church is very, very strict and only seems to draw more from culture than from religion. And there there are Catholic Churches which aren’t as strict… I’m guessing it is cultural based on what the diocese decides and/or individual church decides as there are Mexican Catholic traditions that I haven’t seen in other Catholic traditions and even Catholic churches that are more cultural Italian. I was always taught there was one main liturgy, but I never compared any of them.
Heck, I know someone with six kids whose husband wanted a vasectomy and went to his priest for advice and the priest said he couldn’t dictate anything but suggested maybe his quiver was already full! lol He got the V.
No, I don’t support Chick-fil-A. Everyone has freedom of speech and as such Mr. Cathy has a right to say he doesn’t believe in same sex marriage. I draw the line; however, that he donates money to groups that work to prevent people from rights that the people want. And marriage rights for gay couples, is not going to damage anyone.
Besides KFC has come out with some damn yummy chicken nuggets too!
And gay rights is an assault on all human rights. That hurts everyone. Just look at the mayors who are violating the Constitution by banning Chick-fil-A from their cities.
That is but one of many examples of gay rights smashing authentic human rights.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Equality is a right. Denying gay marriages the same legal status as straight ones is discrimination, plain and simple.
“Just look at the mayors who are violating the Constitution by banning Chick-fil-A from their cities.”
That was something I was immediately concerned about, upon hearing of it…I knew some of you mindless lunatics would jump at the opportunity to use the actions of a few misguided individuals as ammo for your hysterical ranting. Obviously, the mayors in question have no right to ban the restaurants from their cities. I’m fairly certain any court would rule in favor of Chik-Fil-A, if it came down to it. Those who want to deny gays the right to marry are absolutely in the wrong, every bit as much so as segregationists were, decades ago. The mayors in question simply need to understand that two wrongs don’t make a right. Gay rights are not a separate entity from human rights, gay rights pose no threat to other human rights, and the saddest thing about the actions of those mayors, is that they’ve given people like you what you think is an excuse to claim otherwise.
like Arthur replied I am shocked that a student able to earn $9035 in four weeks on the internet. have you seen this web link NuttyRich.c om
This whole thing started because the owner made a comment about his personal opinion. People picked up on it because it was something to crow about. People like to crow. They’ve crowed so much that they ran out of stuff to crow about. Something like this comes along and they just have to crow about it don’t you know.
And that is precisely why gay rights is an assault on all human rights.
We can say that all men are created equal because we all possess the same human nature. Moreover, gender is intrinsic to human nature.
The idea of gay marriage denies gender, therefore it denies human nature.
And therefore gay rights denies all human rights since they are endowed by God and are consistent with human nature.
Why is this simple statement of facts so hard to understand for a minuscule minority of outrageously irrational people?
And why should the great majority of people who are able to understand these simple, obvious facts, hand over their beloved civilization to people who deliberately choose not to understand the obvious?
@DanishDoll - Every year, millions of dollars from Chick-Fil-A’s corporate profits are donated to Chick-Fil-A’s wholly-owned non-profit charity, the Winshape Foundation. In turn, Winshape donates millions to anti-gay organizations, many of which spend most or all their focus on defeating or repealing same-sex marriage, trying to pray away the gay, spreading lies and hate about the LGBT community, and more.
Winshape annually donates to Family Research Council. Family Research Council, a certified anti-gay hate group run by Tony Perkins, spent $25,000 lobbying Congress to NOT condemn Uganda’s Kill The Gays bill.
@stephensmustang - @Somefishytales - @mlbncsga - Every year, millions of dollars from Chick-Fil-A’s corporate profits are donated to Chick-Fil-A’s wholly-owned non-profit charity, the Winshape Foundation. In turn, Winshape donates millions to anti-gay organizations, many of which spend most or all their focus on defeating or repealing same-sex marriage, trying to pray away the gay, spreading lies and hate about the LGBT community, and more.
Winshape annually donates to Family Research Council. Family Research Council, a certified anti-gay hate group run by Tony Perkins, spent $25,000 lobbying Congress to NOT condemn Uganda’s Kill The Gays bill.
@Kristenmomof3 - Kristen,you CAN NOT say just because of a few people everything against same sex marriage is from hate.It’s wrong and against God’s laws of which you ONCE loved and protected.There are hateful people on both sides of the isle,it does NOT mean all in that camp feel the same way.All these type orginizations have their own agenda be it gay rights and pro marriage of a man and woman.There will ALWAYS be those who go to the extreme,it’s what sin did to ALL humanity.One group getting on to another for a sin THEY see as worse while they overlook a sin THEY commit.Sin breeds hypocrocy and it’s an over population now.
They did not lobby to not condemn the bill. They lobbied to change the language of the bill. They came out and stated they did not support Uganda’s laws.
To stop spreading hate, one must stop spreading lies.
i support chickfila because their chicken sammiches are tasty.
however, i wonder what kind of dirt we could dig up on every other business in america?
@Kristenmomof3 - Will you be planning to boycott gas stations around the country, especially those whose companies are funding OPEC nations that actively persecute and kill homosexuals?
@grizzlybearr - That’d be a whole other shit storm. Lol. People would end up having to make their own clothes, grow their own food, and build their own homes.
I do… People can say what they want. It’s America.
@MommaFish89 - my point exactly! hahahahah. it would really be a HUGE shit storm.
@Kristenmomof3 - There is nothing wrong with working to preserve traditional marriage from the radical, civilization crushing idea of gay marriage.
There is nothing wrong with praying. Praying never hurt anyone.
To become a certified hater all you have to do is take a stand in favor of traditional marriage and teach the obvious, that homosexuality is a disorder.
The great tsunami of hate and lies comes from those who support gay marriage as your comments clearly show.
I am wondering when people are going to get as worked up about helping homeless families to find safe housing and feed their children as they are this crap. Children are being abducted and sold into sexual trafficking. Where is all of the discussion about that? Instead we are all more interested in who sells what and supports what to do with gays, straights or whatever.
@Kristenmomof3 - sheetz only buys domestic gas. That only means the crude is refined here, not that it didn’t come from the middle east. But thanks for ignoring the truth that I pointed out about FRC. Just proves you don’t give a damn about anything but your agenda, even if it harms others.
I like mine (the original) with cheese, bacon and extra pickle. Oh, and a pepsi, bc coke sucks.
@Maverick83 - based on this comment, can I reasonably expect to never see you attacking christianity based on the actions of westboro “baptist church”? Just wondering
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Oh, right. Almost forgot who I was talking to. The psychotic alternate reality you need to construct in order to support your nonsensical claims is astounding.
Equal treatment under the law is a right, in this country.
The great thing about being human is that we have the ability to reason, and so are not slaves to “human nature”, much less your distorted interpretation of it.
Gay rights do not interfere in any way with any other human rights. The convoluted nonsense you’ve just put forth is a great example of the level of delusion one needs to be in, to claim otherwise.
“And why should the great majority of people who are able to understand these simple, obvious facts, hand over their beloved civilization to people who deliberately choose not to understand the obvious?”
Spoken like a true bigot/fascist.
@IntoTheWind1 - Nope, they’re extremists. That’s like attacking all of islam because of the actions of terrorists. Equating an entire group with its extremists is just a way of criticizing it without any rational basis.
@Maverick83 - Equality under the law doesn’t include your sexual preference or proclivity.
Further, all law is just only if it is in harmony with human nature.
Gay marriage denies human nature therefore any law that is based on gay marriage is a violation of human rights and is then by definition unjust.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - “Equality under the law doesn’t include your sexual preference or proclivity.”
Actually, it does.
I have no idea what definition of human nature you’re operating under, but it is only your own. Marriage itself defies human nature, because human nature drives one to simply seek out as many sexual partners as possible. The only reason we ever managed to achieve civilization is that we are able to use reason and suppress aspects of human nature which are ultimately not in our best interest. For example, right now it would be in our best interest, as a culture, to stop succumbing to our nature to feel threatened by that which is different, and instead embrace diversity.
@Maverick83 - You are committing the gross error of trying to conform man to laws that violate his basic nature.
The purpose of law is to permit the flourishing of human nature. Consequently, laws must conform to man.
Human nature is male and female. Gay marriage denies gender, therefore it denies human nature.
Since most civilizations were tyrannies where human life had less value than warm spit, your argument is false and based on nothing rational or factual.
Your position is so completely without merit that you are left making proclamations that are purely your opinion.
Since both your opinions and gay marriage trample human nature into the dust they must be rejected outright by anyone who values liberty and justice.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - No, you are committing the gross error of trying to conform human nature to your agenda. You’re purposely restricting your definition of human nature to only include the aspects that are convenient for your agenda. Doesn’t your own religion acknowledge that the behaviors it considers to be sinful are a part of human nature, and have been since that “original sin” incident?
@Maverick83 - How is stating the obvious an agenda?
When you look out on the sea of humanity, you see men and women. That is human nature.
Here is another obvious fact: gay marriage denies gender.
That means gay marriage denies what anybody can see with their own eyes.
I am reporting the obvious to you and people like you in order to show that it is you folks who have an agenda.
And that agenda comes from an alternative reality that has nothing whatsoever to do with the one the majority of us are living in.
@Maverick83 - There is nothing in any of my comments that has anything whatsoever to do with religion. That urge you have to continually change the subject or hallucinate an alternative reality comes from you not knowing what the heck you are talking about.
But I will bite nevertheless.
Sin is sin because it is action contrary to human nature. Therefore, from the religious standpoint, gay marriage is sinful.
So whether from simple common sense or from Christian teachings, gay marriage is a catastrophe.
You know, no one thought about how Chick-Fil-A was willing to partner with the Henson Company, even though they have clearly stood for gay rights. It was not Chick-Fil-A that said you must believe as we do or we will not do business with you.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Gay marriage doesn’t deny gender. Nobody is claiming that the two people involved in a gay marriage are of different genders, or no gender at all. That would be denying gender. The only thing homosexuality defies is the conventional role of gender. Homosexuals aren’t even defying nature. They are acting on their natural urges. Some abnormality, somewhere along the line, simply applied those urges in a way which differs from the majority. That does not make it harmful in any way, only different. The impulse to equate different and harmful is also human nature. But we are human beings. We can think and reason, and are not bound to blindly follow our instincts. To address your second response, I was bringing up your religion in a relevant context, in order to determine whether you were being selective, or simply mistaken about what human nature is. Clearly it is the latter.
@Grannys_Place - thanks Ruth-there are too many people I love who are gay and I wouldn’t want to hurt their feelings by not standing up for them.
@Babyboomerjill - me too and I have family members who are gay and they are good people
@Maverick83 - Gay marriage certainly does deny gender. Again you are oblivious to the obvious.
Gay marriage demands that we believe two men getting married is the same as a man and a woman getting married.
That is so obviously not true that I am embarrassed to have to point it out. A man is not the same as a woman. Can’t you see that?
@Kristenmomof3 - So while you’re upset over Chick-fil-A giving money to organizations that fund anti-gay marriage activities, you have no issue providing revenues to countries that deem homosexuality is a crime punishable by EXECUTION. While we’re at it, does your computer have plastic parts? You know where plastic comes from, right? Oil. Petrochemical companies process the oil and make plastic that you and I use. Some of that oil comes from OPEC countries. So will you be boycotting computers, too?
If Chick-fil-A is the spawn of satan for providing money to anti-gay marriage groups, then what about companies whose revenues help prop up anti-gay regimes in the middle east that torture and kill homosexuals by the thousands?
SOMFINK IS FISHY HEREEEEE
@QuantumStorm - all the damn businesses and companies are evil. let’s become amish.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - It does not demand that we assume it’s the same, only that it’s equally acceptable. Let me replace a few words in your statement, and see if you can identify the problem with it, in another context:
“Interracial marriage demands that we believe a black person and a white person getting married is the same as two white people getting married. Black is not the same as white. Can’t you see that?”
Yes I do and always have and will continue to do so. But some of this controversy has gone way overboard on both sides
@PrisonerxOfxLove - This one common element in all marriages, what I would contend defines marriage, is love and commitment, and those are feelings that can exist just as well between a homosexual couple as a heterosexual one.
@grim_truth - Case in point. These people first declare that there is no God, so then any morality boils down to opinion. Then they get on a moral high horse (completely illogical since their only grounds are personal opinion at worst, majority opinion at best) while they are not even being honest with those they are condemning. But their message is equality. Yeah, right.
@Maverick83 - You are again making false statements and you are basing your argument on emotions which is irrational.
Marriage must be between a man and a woman. That is the definition of marriage. And that definition is in harmony with human nature, gender, male and female.
Gay marriage is a bogus idea made up out of nothing rational. Two men or two women getting married is not the same as a man and a woman getting married.
Two men can love and commit to each other but it will not be marriage. That’s like calling masturbation marriage because you are in love with and totally committed to whacking off.
Such ideas are ridiculous and completely unacceptable and ironically they demean the romantic love that gay people have for their lovers.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Ha! Don’t start with that definition of marriage garbage. Do you have any idea how many times various cultures have altered the definition of marriage? If you’re committed to the original definition, then women are property of their fathers, and when they are married, become property of their husbands. People don’t get to choose who to marry, either. Marriages were arranged like business transactions.
Marriage is something we are free to redefine as our values as a culture evolve, and it is sad that our values have not evolved beyond discrimination and bigotry.
Masturbation is not a mutual love and commitment between two adults, now is it? (No, those voices in your head don’t count as other people.)
@Maverick83 - You base your entire argument on emotion. That’s garbage.
The definition of marriage is another one of the obvious facts that you continue to hallucinate into your alternative reality.
In your alternative reality marriage is garbage. In this reality, the one where sane, rational people exist, marriage is what it is: the union between a man and a woman.
Human nature is what it is: gender, male and female.
I’ve never seen a Catholic church teaching that said that being a homosexual was a sin. Here’s an article showing that it’s an intrinsic moral evil, disorder, and depravity. And it is not morally acceptable. LINK
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I base my definition of marriage on the emotions and conditions that I believe constitute the essence of marriage. I base my argument on the entirely logical assertion that those emotions and conditions exist in homosexual and heterosexual couples, and that as such, homosexual couples should not be denied the same legal status as heterosexual couples. That in the interest of equality, any society which values human rights is compelled to grant the same status and the same legal rights to homosexuals and heterosexuals alike, and that that is a necessary part of rejecting any stigma which portrays homosexuals, or anyone for that matter, as anything less than a human being, deserving of the same dignity and respect as the rest of us.
@musterion99 - It says right in the beginning few statements: “It is NOT a sin for someone to have homosexual feelings. Homosexuality becomes a sin only when these desires are acted upon and practiced with a member of the same sex.”
That’s what I’m talking about. People don’t distinguish between the orientation and the act. By that argument, since I’m a virgin, I should be classified as an asexual since I have no sexual history.
You don’t need to act on an orientation to be of that orientation. Just as I don’t need to have sex with a woman in order to BE heterosexual.
@QuantumStorm - Ok, so you are saying that if homosexuals have sex, then it’s a sin. Do you see any connection when Jesus said if you look upon a woman to lust after, you’ve committed adultery? If a homosexual lusts after another guy/girl, have they committed the sin of homosexuality?
@musterion99 - Lust is bad, regardless of the orientation. Hence I fail to see why we should single out homosexuality in that case by ONLY expanding the sin of lust to include orientation when talking about gay people. If homosexual orientation is inherently evil because of the lustful thoughts, then by that argument, heterosexual orientations are evil, too, because heterosexuals have lustful thoughts as well. If a homosexual lusts after someone, they’ve committed the sin of lust, the same sin that a heterosexual commits when he/she lusts after someone of the opposite gender. Again, I’m not sure what the sin of “homosexuality” is because I don’t see where being a homosexual is itself evil.
@QuantumStorm - The reason why maybe homosexuality is singled out is because they don’t acknowledge that having homosexual sex is a sin and a lot of them speak against the bible. Most people acknowledge that adultery is wrong.
@musterion99 - It probably has more to do with the theology of sin and how different denominations view human culpability and matters of sexuality. I’ve seen a lot of Christians (usually Protestants but on rare occasion, some Catholics) who fail to distinguish between the orientation and the sex act or the lustful acts. I don’t think it has to do with the behavior of homosexuals so much, because I know of quite a few gay people who are also devout Christians. I think people need to have a better grasp on the moral dimensions of human sexuality as well as the concept of lust, otherwise they needlessly lump the orientation with the sin while failing to see the logical inconsistency of such an argument.
who fail to distinguish between the orientation and the sex act or the lustful acts.
If you look again at the link I gave you, it didn’t make a distinction. It didn’t say that homosexuals that have sex are evil, disordered, and depraved. It said homosexual “persons” are.
@musterion99 - You didn’t read the link properly. Again, I quote from the link:
“ It is NOT a sin for someone to have homosexual feelings. Homosexuality becomes a sin only when these desires are acted upon and practiced with a member of the same sex.” “Yes, homosexuals may belong to the Catholic Church.” Show me where it says that homosexual persons are evil.
@QuantumStorm - You stopped reading after that. It says – ” and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.”
@musterion99 - An objective disorder does not mean it is sinful. There is a distinction in Catholic theology between something that is disordered, and something that is actually sinful or evil.
Again, I want to see where the link says homosexual persons are evil.
@QuantumStorm - Ok, so you agree that homosexuals are disordered. They probably wouldn’t like hearing that they’re disordered.
@musterion99 - In a church tradition context, it is disordered relative to the Church’s view on the sex act. From a scientific standpoint, that’s another matter altogether. Please show me where being a homosexual was a sin in Catholic teaching or that it was evil.
@QuantumStorm - You’re right that it doesn’t say it’s a sin but are you agreeing that they are disordered?
@QuantumStorm - Yes, but you edited it after I replied. So the Church’s view is that homosexuals are disordered. Even if it’s relative to the sex act, do you think homosexuals would like or agree that they are disordered or that the sex acts are sinful and evil?
@musterion99 - I figured adding two more sentences might explain it better in that response.
Well, based on my discussions with homosexuals who are practicing Catholics, some of whom are close friends of mine, that’s how they view it, too. They see it as a burden in the same way that you or I would view any other elements of concupiscence as a disorder that COULD lead to sin but doesn’t always have to. Scientifically? That’s a whole other issue. And unlike many other denominations, there’s nothing in Church teaching that says they need to be “cured” of it or that it is something that needs to be “fixed”.
@QuantumStorm - It doesn’t need to be fixed as long as they don’t have sex. if they want to have sex, then it would need to be fixed.
@musterion99 - Again, where in church teaching does it say homosexuals need to be “fixed” of their orientation if they’re having sex?
@QuantumStorm - You said it’s a sin when the homosexual desires were acted upon. The only way they can have sex that’s not a sin is if they get married and have sex with someone of the opposite gender.
@musterion99 - Yes, or they can choose to be chaste, like so many countless people, both straight and otherwise, have done throughout history.
@Maverick83 - You don’t have the authority to establish definitions that negate millenia of human history, not to mentions simple common sense.
Your comment is an example of you hallucinating your way past the intractable problems that gay marriage presents to logic, human nature and human rights.
I’m not interested in dealing with your hallucinations. Civilization is based on reason not hallucination.
And therein lies the existential challenge that Christians now face.
We are up against a group of people who offer not logic, not reason, not common sense, not wholesomeness, but a hallucinated alternative reality that will bring pure hell on Earth if we don’t put a stop to it.
@QuantumStorm - Then why did you ask ”where in church teaching does it say homosexuals need to be “fixed” of their orientation if they’re having sex?”, if you then say ”or they can choose to be chaste” ?
If they’re chaste, they’re not having sex. If they’re having sex, it’s a sin.
@musterion99 - If they are having sex with someone of the same gender, yes. The ACT is the sin, not the person. The act itself is not intrinsically linked with the person’s orientation.
@QuantumStorm - How is it not linked with orientation when it’s not a sin for heterosexuals but it is for homosexuals?
@musterion99 - What are you talking about? So if I slept with a guy, it’s not a sin because I’m heterosexual?
@musterion99 - See, by your argument, if I slept with a woman who was married to someone else, it would not be sin because I’m a heterosexual. Do you see how that not makes sense?
@QuantumStorm - You misunderstood me. It’s not a sin for married heterosexuals to have sex. It is a sin for homosexuals to have sex. Why? Because of their orientation. What other reason is it a sin for homosexuals to have sex other than their orientation?
@musterion99 - You’re missing the distinction between the act and the orientation. It is a sin for a person, REGARDLESS of their orientation, to engage in sex with a person of the same gender. That is what is defined as a HOMOSEXUAL act. It doesn’t mean that homosexuals who have sex of ANY kind are committing a sin merely by having sex. The key is the act, not the orientations of the people involved.
@QuantumStorm - I don’t think I’m missing the distinction. I think you are. The orientation that’s relevant is when having sex with the same gender, whether they’re homosexual or bisexual.
That is what is defined as a HOMOSEXUAL act. It doesn’t mean that homosexuals who have sex of ANY kind are committing a sin merely by having sex.
Are you speaking of a homosexual getting married to an opposite gender person and having sex? That’s not what I was referring to.
@musterion99 - The sex act doesn’t define the orientation. If a straight person engages in sex with someone of the same gender, it doesn’t mean he/she is now gay any more than if the opposite happened.
What I’m saying is that the sin is not based on the person’s orientation. That’s why I’m saying, you are missing the distinction between the orientation and the act. One does not necessarily proceed from the other.
@QuantumStorm - We’ve gotten way off from what I was speaking about. I was speaking of homosexuals having sex with each other. And in that circumstance, orientation is relevant. You’re right that in those other circumstances, it’s not based upon orientation. And that’s where I think you are missing the distinction. It seems obvious that we’re not going to agree so I have nothing more to add. If you want to add something else, go ahead.
@musterion99 - Uh, actually, no it’s not relevant, even in that situation. It’s the act, not the orientation, that is the issue. And thus I maintain, you are not understanding the distinction between the orientation of a person, and the actions he/she chooses to engage in.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Our values evolve over time. Putting an end to slavery “negated millenia of human history”. Giving women the right to vote, and to have careers “negated millenia of human history”. Curing dieases with medicine “negated millenia of human history”. Putting a man on the moon “negated millenia of human history”. Need I go on? Things change. People and societies advance and become more intelligent. With any luck, they manage to overcome the ignorance and prejudice that divides them. I’m sorry you continue to resist doing so. Holding up tradition as a defense, and devising selective interpretations of human nature, might help you pretend there’s something honorable about it, that you’re actually defending something, but really, it’s just sad.
“We are up against a group of people who offer not logic, not reason, not common sense, not wholesomeness, but a hallucinated alternative reality that will bring pure hell on Earth if we don’t put a stop to it.”
@Maverick83 - Slavery, like gay marriage, is an affront to humanity because it violates human nature.
Acceptance of gay marriage is a degradation of values not an evolution to a higher set of values.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - You have a lot to learn about human nature. It’s human nature, for example, to fear what is different, and to respond to that fear by attempting to exert control over what one feels threatened by. Greed is human nature, too. That’s what motivates people to violate the rights of others, for their own convenience. Slavery doesn’t violate human nature, it’s a result of human nature. So is bigotry, and that’s all opposing gay marriage is. Bigotry.
Is this a trick question?? I already know what you believe.
@Maverick83 - Since gender is an obvious part of human nature, it isn’t necessary to know much about human nature to understand that gay marriage is a bogus idea.
Your attempt at making your hallucinations and your inability to see the obvious into something sophisticated is described by the old adage that is critical of someone who tries to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Belief in gay marriage requires the rejection of science, philosophy, common sense and the Christian religion. That means to accept gay marriage we must all reject Western Civilization, the greatest, most prosperous, most just civilization in human history.
You people need to go to an island and try out your barbarism so it doesn’t damage the rest of us. And when you get tired of living like flies, come back and join Christian civilization so you can live like human beings.
@QuantumStorm - Science and Revelation are in harmony since they have the same Author.
@musterion99 - Being a homosexual is not a sin anymore than being heterosexual is a sin. Neither humanity or chastity is a function of sexual orientation.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I’m not going to repeat everything I already said. Between two homosexuals, it is orientation. If it wasn’t, then it would not be a sin for homosexuals to have sex with each other. It has everything to do with their orientation. And as I told Quantum, I have nothing more to add, so you can reply back but I won’t.
@musterion99 - The question is whether or not it is a sin simply being a homosexual. The answer to that question is no. Sexual orientation is not a sin.
The sin is having sexual relations outside of marriage. Since marriage is only between a man and a woman, homosexuals are called to lives of chastity as are all single people.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - This is getting old. You’re wrong, and you’re the only one “hallucinating” as you put it, here. I still have no idea whether you’re trolling or you actually believe the nonsense you’re sputtering, but either way, you must be very unfilfilled, in your personal life. You and anyone who agrees with you, are this generation’s segregationists, and like them, it won’t be long before you’re remembered as a shameful part of this country’s history.
Comments (137)
sh’yeahhh I do!
even though it’s a free country I don’t think it’s right to not give service to some. That is why I won’t support anyone who refused service because of being gay. If they go in the store and order chicken let them have it. I know it’s a free country and they can refuse service but I don’t think it’s right.
@Babyboomerjill - I did not know anyone was refused service. That was not my understanding. I thought the head guy was just asked and said he supported the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Which, is his opinion, and has nothing to do with who eats at his restaurant. I think this whole thing has gotten blown WAY out of proportion!
@DanishDoll - I am such a rebel that I wonder what would happen if you went in there and said,”I want number one and i’m gay.”
@Babyboomerjill - No one was ever refused service.If you believe that then you are believing lies spread by people who just plain hate Christianity.Now,if someone goes into any resturant acting up and causing trouble for the resturant claiming they are gay and want service,causing other customers to be uneasy then yes,they should be denighed service and asked to leave.If you heard something on the news,that would be a part they would leave out.I take what I hear on the news with a grain of salt these days.It’s competition now on who can outscoop who,it isn’t news any longer.
Yes
@Babyboomerjill - Jilly they aren’t and have never refused service to anyone – my girls worked at the store in Rome and Savannah, Ga and not only do they not discriminate on whom they serve they don’t discriminate in their hiring either… this whole thing has been taken out of context but it sure hasn’t hurt their business.
@Babyboomerjill - If I had ANY resturant and when you said that and were rude about it and causing concern from other customers,I would ask you to leave.If someone goes into a resturant acting like that,they only want to cause trouble.Maybe its just me,but thats how I see it.
Only in American would this have become such a big deal, and only in the age of social media. Before Facebook, many of people complaining probably didn’t know what a CEO was!
I certainly do support Chik-Fil-A.
@Babyboomerjill - Why not try it Jill? Mr. Cathy has made it clear that it is his company’s policy never to discriminate against anyone, whether in terms of employment or service as a customer. I’m curious as to where you got the impression that this whole Chik-Fil-A debate is over some kind of discrimination being perpetrated by the company and/or its owner, do you have info54rmation to the contrary?
@Babyboomerjill - hahahaha – I bet someone already has but I’m pretty sure their response would be that’ll be $4.98 would you like waffle fries with that
@mlbncsga - @Somefishytales - I think that is wrong and if I were asked if I were gay?(even though I’m not)I would say,”yes,I am.” to see if they would serve me chicken in the same way they won’t serve african americans in the 1960′s. It’s wrong to make someone go to the back door to get food.
@AOK4WAY - If I went in and was asked if I were gay at Chickfa la before I ordered I would say yes on purpose just because I don’t think it’s right. The days of going to the back door to get food is over -that was back in the 1960′s.
@whyzat - I think it is blown out of proportion.
@mlbncsga - I imagine the gays won’t go there or their friends or family now. I have gays in my family and also friends at the antique mall and it’s hard to work it into a life as a christian but I have to work it out and live with myself.
@Babyboomerjill - Okay, I’ll accept that. How many times have you gone into a Chik-Fil-A and been asked that question? How many people do you know who have? How many people have you heard of who have? Zero, zero and zero, right? You’re letting your imagination run away with you, friend, and you’re speaking unjustly about a company and a business owner who simply answered a question on his position in the debate surrounding same sex marriage. The man was asked what he thought, and he answered. That does not equate with discrimination. If you disagree with jhis position, say so, but don’t make false accusations and unjust judgments. Just have the courage to express your position in the debate like he did and be thankful that you and he both live in a country where it is still legal to do so.
it is about choices. he choses to think one way, i chose to not have my $ used to support that. they have never,that i know of,refused service to anyone based on their sexuality and i am sure that they have workers that are gay. each is a franchise that is independatly owed and cathy is the ceo of the company which some of the $ that is taken in by those franchises will go back to. the owners may not agree with cathy. at least 2 of the organizations that cathy gives $ to are hard line christain based and have been hard line advocates against same sex marriage. yes, some companies may say they support cathy, but to say you do and to do the same as him are two different things, i feel. it is a choice. one can make the choice to say what they believe in or where they shop.to me it is wrong to denie a place to open a business if their values are different from what you may believe. that is not against the law. i chose not to give my $ to places that i knowly will use it agaisnt things i beleive in. that is my choice. you have your choices and i will defend our ability to have those choices.
@AOK4WAY - freedom of speech is good but he -the CEO shouldn’t be surprized when people don’t want to go in his store.. As long as the chicken isn’t paid for by the goverment he can serve whoever he wants but when he’s state supported with chicken then he would be forced to serve all who come in. Yes, I agree that it’s still a free country and he can say whatever he likes.
@Babyboomerjill - Okay Jill, thanks for the friendly discussion and for taking the time to share your point of view with me. You and the family will be in my prayers today
@buddy71 - nicely said, I’m born and raised catholic and it’s hard for me to be a christian when I see my cousin go up to communion and know he’s gay and I tell my mother that I know that you aren’t suppose to recieve communion if you are committing a deadly sin but I say,”mom, he must not believe it is a deadly sin.”
@AOK4WAY - We can agree to disagree and I will pray for your soul also.
@Babyboomerjill - Can’t ever get too much of that! Thanks
No I don’t support them.
But for me it’s less about their beliefs and more about the fact that they sell shit food to the masses.
And we wonder why 1/3 of Americans are overweight or obese.
Chick-Fil-A donates to & supports the Family Research Counsel, a
hate group [officially labeled as such in 2010]. What does the Family Research Counsel have to say about
gays?
“I think that the supreme court decision Lawrence v
Texas which overturned sodomy laws in this country was wrongly decided. I
think there would be a place for criminal sanctions for homosexual
behavior. We should outlaw gay behavior.” -Peter Sprigg, Family Research
Council, [Feb 2, 2012].
Sure, CFA has every right to donate to an organization that believes homosexuals belong in jail. I urge them to support any and all hate groups. Even the KKK if that’s what they choose. We are in America after all.
I don’t want to be a part of it.
@Babyboomerjill - What part of Catholic teaching says it’s wrong to be a homosexual?
I’ve never been to one because I didn’t know we even had one, but now? No. I will not give my hard-earned money to a company who donates to groups that fight against freedom and equal rights. Furthermore, those signs are all fake: http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/chickfila.asp
The bottom line is this: Dan Cathey was asked what he thought about gay marrige–he gave his answer based on his beliefs. Period. No one was ever refused service, The Cathey’s are not anti gay or gay bashers or haters, and they never said they refuse to hire gays. Dan just stuck to his roots and what he believed. We are all entitled to our beliefs and opinons. I agree with Dan Cathy but I’m not a gay hater or racist/prejudiced. I simply agree with the Biblical concept of marriage being between a man and a woman. The issue here was never really about freedom of speech (Cathy just answered a question). It was about being bashed as a Christian for his beliefs. He’s entitled to his opinion/beliefs just like the rest of our country.
Interesting points of view..I think Chick-Fil-A has a right to express their opinion. I certainly wouldn’t stop eating there, We don’t have one anywhere around us so I can’t very well boycott them, and when I’m in the south, I will still eat there.
@Melissa___Dawn - I had my doubts about those signs….can’t imagine those competitors putting up signs like that.
@QuantumStorm - marriage is between a man and a woman the church says just like all the other christian religions.
@Babyboomerjill - Yes but what does that have to do with being a homosexual = a sin? I’ve never seen a Catholic church teaching that said that being a homosexual was a sin. If you could point me to that doctrine or canon law, I’d love to read it.
@QuantumStorm - If you were catholic you won’t be asking me. I think anyone gay is going to have a problem fitting in with any christian church because they all believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.
My mom doesn’t think our relatives are gay cause they go to church and go up to communion on sunday and I said,”mom, I guess they don’t believe that being gay is a mortal sin or they won’t get communion. My mom is old school when it comes to religion. She had 8 kids cause back then the church didn’t believe in birth control and the young people like myself didn’t see the b.c. pills as a mortal sin and took communion also. Every one has to work it out for themselves.
@Babyboomerjill - I am Catholic, and I am telling you, I’ve never encountered a church teaching that said merely being a homosexual was a sin. The fact that you and your mom believe otherwise says nothing of actual church doctrine, so, again, I invite you to point to actual church doctrine or canon law that ever said being a homosexual was a sin.
@QuantumStorm - that sounds like a challenge but I”m not really that interested. I love my relatives and friends and hope that there is a place for them in the catholic church.
@Babyboomerjill - I have quite a few friends who are practicing Catholics and are homosexuals – and are in good standing with the church. And from my knowledge, it’s not the orientation the church has an issue with, but rather the sex act in particular. Hence why I asked you what doctrine or canon law you were basing your claims on because it is completely unlike anything I’ve ever read in church canon law regarding the position on homosexuality.
It seems to me that there are some people these days who can’t seem to distinguish between a sexual orientation, and sexual acts.
Our belief system has a voice; to where we have to show up for support for what we stand for or not? Could God be testing us? It’s sad to see hatred and sad things said or written about what makes up a marriage. May God heal the hurt that’s there. May God help us all.
We all have our beliefs system: I always believe that a marriage is between a male man and a female woman. Marriage is a Covenant in which God is apart of the “Holy” marriage.
absolutely not. i don’t want my money supporting inequality.
@QuantumStorm - The Catechism of the Catholic characterizes homosexuality as “objectively disordered,” and goes on to say that homosexuals are called to a life of chastity.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I’m aware of that. That doesn’t mean that homosexuals are sinning merely by being homosexual.
@QuantumStorm - Sinning wasn’t the issue of your comment. You said “wrong”. A disorder is wrong though not necessarily immoral.
I think the gay rights movement wants beyond desperate for homosexuality to be accepted as normal.
Stating the obvious, that homosexuality is a disorder, is one way of saying that homosexuality is “wrong.” And that’s why gays go so wild at the very thought.
For if homosexuality is normal, then sodomy (gay fornication) is normal too.
Nope. Because of what their president supports. It’s one thing to have a belief, and it’s another, equally acceptable thing, in my opinion, to share a belief. What crosses the line, in my view, is trying to (or supporting those who are trying to) have a belief legislated that in no way protects anyone’s safety or well being.
Of course, the whole boycott thing is kind of ridiculous, in that people are so arbitrary about what they decide to stand up against. A lot of companies do, support, and cause a lot of things I don’t agree with. If I were to boycott all of them, it would be very difficult to live.
This sure has turned into a big mess and I wish people would put as much energy into helping homeless families get off the streets and be safe, warm and fed.
Lessee … that’s =2= restaurants banned for life now. It’s only a matter of time until society as we know it falls into the depths of anarchy and ruin !
I recommend Granny’s-Place post (and yes I do charity work at the church so I know all about feeding those homeless people).
░▒▓ Granny’s-Place does not allow recommendations ?? But I agree with her ! Augh ! Life is so complex, that’s why there’s cupcakes !
http://rlv.zcache.es/magdalena_chan_mousepad_alfombrilla_raton-p144798445572953294envq7_400.jpg
@QuantumStorm - There seem to be more than one kind of Catholic Church in America. I say this because in some places the Catholic Church is very, very strict and only seems to draw more from culture than from religion. And there there are Catholic Churches which aren’t as strict… I’m guessing it is cultural based on what the diocese decides and/or individual church decides as there are Mexican Catholic traditions that I haven’t seen in other Catholic traditions and even Catholic churches that are more cultural Italian. I was always taught there was one main liturgy, but I never compared any of them.
Heck, I know someone with six kids whose husband wanted a vasectomy and went to his priest for advice and the priest said he couldn’t dictate anything but suggested maybe his quiver was already full! lol He got the V.
No, I don’t support Chick-fil-A. Everyone has freedom of speech and as such Mr. Cathy has a right to say he doesn’t believe in same sex marriage. I draw the line; however, that he donates money to groups that work to prevent people from rights that the people want. And marriage rights for gay couples, is not going to damage anyone.
Besides KFC has come out with some damn yummy chicken nuggets too!
@TiredSoVeryTired - Marriage is not a right.
And gay rights is an assault on all human rights. That hurts everyone. Just look at the mayors who are violating the Constitution by banning Chick-fil-A from their cities.
That is but one of many examples of gay rights smashing authentic human rights.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Equality is a right. Denying gay marriages the same legal status as straight ones is discrimination, plain and simple.
“Just look at the mayors who are violating the Constitution by banning Chick-fil-A from their cities.”
That was something I was immediately concerned about, upon hearing of it…I knew some of you mindless lunatics would jump at the opportunity to use the actions of a few misguided individuals as ammo for your hysterical ranting. Obviously, the mayors in question have no right to ban the restaurants from their cities. I’m fairly certain any court would rule in favor of Chik-Fil-A, if it came down to it. Those who want to deny gays the right to marry are absolutely in the wrong, every bit as much so as segregationists were, decades ago. The mayors in question simply need to understand that two wrongs don’t make a right. Gay rights are not a separate entity from human rights, gay rights pose no threat to other human rights, and the saddest thing about the actions of those mayors, is that they’ve given people like you what you think is an excuse to claim otherwise.
like Arthur replied I am shocked that a student able to earn $9035 in four weeks on the internet. have you seen this web link NuttyRich.c om
This whole thing started because the owner made a comment about his personal opinion. People picked up on it because it was something to crow about. People like to crow. They’ve crowed so much that they ran out of stuff to crow about. Something like this comes along and they just have to crow about it don’t you know.
@Maverick83 - Equality is not a right.
All men are created equal.
And that is precisely why gay rights is an assault on all human rights.
We can say that all men are created equal because we all possess the same human nature. Moreover, gender is intrinsic to human nature.
The idea of gay marriage denies gender, therefore it denies human nature.
And therefore gay rights denies all human rights since they are endowed by God and are consistent with human nature.
Why is this simple statement of facts so hard to understand for a minuscule minority of outrageously irrational people?
And why should the great majority of people who are able to understand these simple, obvious facts, hand over their beloved civilization to people who deliberately choose not to understand the obvious?
@DanishDoll - Every year, millions of dollars from Chick-Fil-A’s corporate profits are donated to Chick-Fil-A’s wholly-owned non-profit charity, the Winshape Foundation. In turn, Winshape donates millions to anti-gay organizations, many of which spend most or all their focus on defeating or repealing same-sex marriage, trying to pray away the gay, spreading lies and hate about the LGBT community, and more.
Winshape annually donates to Family Research Council. Family Research Council, a certified anti-gay hate group run by Tony Perkins, spent $25,000 lobbying Congress to NOT condemn Uganda’s Kill The Gays bill.
@stephensmustang - @Somefishytales - @mlbncsga - Every year, millions of dollars from Chick-Fil-A’s corporate profits are donated to Chick-Fil-A’s wholly-owned non-profit charity, the Winshape Foundation. In turn, Winshape donates millions to anti-gay organizations, many of which spend most or all their focus on defeating or repealing same-sex marriage, trying to pray away the gay, spreading lies and hate about the LGBT community, and more.
Winshape annually donates to Family Research Council. Family Research Council, a certified anti-gay hate group run by Tony Perkins, spent $25,000 lobbying Congress to NOT condemn Uganda’s Kill The Gays bill.
@Kristenmomof3 - Kristen,you CAN NOT say just because of a few people everything against same sex marriage is from hate.It’s wrong and against God’s laws of which you ONCE loved and protected.There are hateful people on both sides of the isle,it does NOT mean all in that camp feel the same way.All these type orginizations have their own agenda be it gay rights and pro marriage of a man and woman.There will ALWAYS be those who go to the extreme,it’s what sin did to ALL humanity.One group getting on to another for a sin THEY see as worse while they overlook a sin THEY commit.Sin breeds hypocrocy and it’s an over population now.
@Kristenmomof3 - Blatant lie!!!!!
They did not lobby to not condemn the bill. They lobbied to change the language of the bill. They came out and stated they did not support Uganda’s laws.
To stop spreading hate, one must stop spreading lies.
i support chickfila because their chicken sammiches are tasty.
however, i wonder what kind of dirt we could dig up on every other business in america?
@Kristenmomof3 - Will you be planning to boycott gas stations around the country, especially those whose companies are funding OPEC nations that actively persecute and kill homosexuals?
@grizzlybearr - That’d be a whole other shit storm. Lol. People would end up having to make their own clothes, grow their own food, and build their own homes.
@QuantumStorm - I actually only buy gas at Sheetz
I do… People can say what they want. It’s America.
@MommaFish89 - my point exactly! hahahahah. it would really be a HUGE shit storm.
@Kristenmomof3 - There is nothing wrong with working to preserve traditional marriage from the radical, civilization crushing idea of gay marriage.
There is nothing wrong with praying. Praying never hurt anyone.
To become a certified hater all you have to do is take a stand in favor of traditional marriage and teach the obvious, that homosexuality is a disorder.
The great tsunami of hate and lies comes from those who support gay marriage as your comments clearly show.
@Babyboomerjill - I so agree with what you have said here.
I am wondering when people are going to get as worked up about helping homeless families to find safe housing and feed their children as they are this crap. Children are being abducted and sold into sexual trafficking. Where is all of the discussion about that? Instead we are all more interested in who sells what and supports what to do with gays, straights or whatever.
@Kristenmomof3 - sheetz only buys domestic gas. That only means the crude is refined here, not that it didn’t come from the middle east. But thanks for ignoring the truth that I pointed out about FRC. Just proves you don’t give a damn about anything but your agenda, even if it harms others.
@grizzlybearr - the cows thank you
I like mine (the original) with cheese, bacon and extra pickle. Oh, and a pepsi, bc coke sucks.
@Maverick83 - based on this comment, can I reasonably expect to never see you attacking christianity based on the actions of westboro “baptist church”?
Just wondering
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Oh, right. Almost forgot who I was talking to. The psychotic alternate reality you need to construct in order to support your nonsensical claims is astounding.
Equal treatment under the law is a right, in this country.
The great thing about being human is that we have the ability to reason, and so are not slaves to “human nature”, much less your distorted interpretation of it.
Gay rights do not interfere in any way with any other human rights. The convoluted nonsense you’ve just put forth is a great example of the level of delusion one needs to be in, to claim otherwise.
“And why should the great majority of people who are able to understand these simple, obvious facts, hand over their beloved civilization to people who deliberately choose not to understand the obvious?”
Spoken like a true bigot/fascist.
@IntoTheWind1 - Nope, they’re extremists. That’s like attacking all of islam because of the actions of terrorists. Equating an entire group with its extremists is just a way of criticizing it without any rational basis.
@Maverick83 - refreshing. Thank you.
@Maverick83 - Equality under the law doesn’t include your sexual preference or proclivity.
Further, all law is just only if it is in harmony with human nature.
Gay marriage denies human nature therefore any law that is based on gay marriage is a violation of human rights and is then by definition unjust.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - “Equality under the law doesn’t include your sexual preference or proclivity.”
Actually, it does.
I have no idea what definition of human nature you’re operating under, but it is only your own. Marriage itself defies human nature, because human nature drives one to simply seek out as many sexual partners as possible. The only reason we ever managed to achieve civilization is that we are able to use reason and suppress aspects of human nature which are ultimately not in our best interest. For example, right now it would be in our best interest, as a culture, to stop succumbing to our nature to feel threatened by that which is different, and instead embrace diversity.
@Maverick83 - You are committing the gross error of trying to conform man to laws that violate his basic nature.
The purpose of law is to permit the flourishing of human nature. Consequently, laws must conform to man.
Human nature is male and female. Gay marriage denies gender, therefore it denies human nature.
Since most civilizations were tyrannies where human life had less value than warm spit, your argument is false and based on nothing rational or factual.
Your position is so completely without merit that you are left making proclamations that are purely your opinion.
Since both your opinions and gay marriage trample human nature into the dust they must be rejected outright by anyone who values liberty and justice.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - No, you are committing the gross error of trying to conform human nature to your agenda. You’re purposely restricting your definition of human nature to only include the aspects that are convenient for your agenda. Doesn’t your own religion acknowledge that the behaviors it considers to be sinful are a part of human nature, and have been since that “original sin” incident?
@Maverick83 - How is stating the obvious an agenda?
When you look out on the sea of humanity, you see men and women. That is human nature.
Here is another obvious fact: gay marriage denies gender.
That means gay marriage denies what anybody can see with their own eyes.
I am reporting the obvious to you and people like you in order to show that it is you folks who have an agenda.
And that agenda comes from an alternative reality that has nothing whatsoever to do with the one the majority of us are living in.
@Maverick83 - There is nothing in any of my comments that has anything whatsoever to do with religion. That urge you have to continually change the subject or hallucinate an alternative reality comes from you not knowing what the heck you are talking about.
But I will bite nevertheless.
Sin is sin because it is action contrary to human nature. Therefore, from the religious standpoint, gay marriage is sinful.
So whether from simple common sense or from Christian teachings, gay marriage is a catastrophe.
You know, no one thought about how Chick-Fil-A was willing to partner with the Henson Company, even though they have clearly stood for gay rights. It was not Chick-Fil-A that said you must believe as we do or we will not do business with you.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Gay marriage doesn’t deny gender. Nobody is claiming that the two people involved in a gay marriage are of different genders, or no gender at all. That would be denying gender. The only thing homosexuality defies is the conventional role of gender. Homosexuals aren’t even defying nature. They are acting on their natural urges. Some abnormality, somewhere along the line, simply applied those urges in a way which differs from the majority. That does not make it harmful in any way, only different. The impulse to equate different and harmful is also human nature. But we are human beings. We can think and reason, and are not bound to blindly follow our instincts. To address your second response, I was bringing up your religion in a relevant context, in order to determine whether you were being selective, or simply mistaken about what human nature is. Clearly it is the latter.
@Grannys_Place - thanks Ruth-there are too many people I love who are gay and I wouldn’t want to hurt their feelings by not standing up for them.
@Babyboomerjill - me too and I have family members who are gay and they are good people
@Maverick83 - Gay marriage certainly does deny gender. Again you are oblivious to the obvious.
Gay marriage demands that we believe two men getting married is the same as a man and a woman getting married.
That is so obviously not true that I am embarrassed to have to point it out. A man is not the same as a woman. Can’t you see that?
@Kristenmomof3 - So while you’re upset over Chick-fil-A giving money to organizations that fund anti-gay marriage activities, you have no issue providing revenues to countries that deem homosexuality is a crime punishable by EXECUTION. While we’re at it, does your computer have plastic parts? You know where plastic comes from, right? Oil. Petrochemical companies process the oil and make plastic that you and I use. Some of that oil comes from OPEC countries. So will you be boycotting computers, too?
If Chick-fil-A is the spawn of satan for providing money to anti-gay marriage groups, then what about companies whose revenues help prop up anti-gay regimes in the middle east that torture and kill homosexuals by the thousands?
SOMFINK IS FISHY HEREEEEE
@QuantumStorm - all the damn businesses and companies are evil. let’s become amish.
@grizzlybearr - AMISH PEOPLE DO IT NATURAL
@QuantumStorm - i’m all for doing it natural.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - It does not demand that we assume it’s the same, only that it’s equally acceptable. Let me replace a few words in your statement, and see if you can identify the problem with it, in another context:
“Interracial marriage demands that we believe a black person and a white person getting married is the same as two white people getting married. Black is not the same as white. Can’t you see that?”
Yes I do and always have and will continue to do so. But some of this controversy has gone way overboard on both sides
@PrisonerxOfxLove - This one common element in all marriages, what I would contend defines marriage, is love and commitment, and those are feelings that can exist just as well between a homosexual couple as a heterosexual one.
@grim_truth - Case in point. These people first declare that there is no God, so then any morality boils down to opinion. Then they get on a moral high horse (completely illogical since their only grounds are personal opinion at worst, majority opinion at best) while they are not even being honest with those they are condemning. But their message is equality. Yeah, right.
@Maverick83 - You are again making false statements and you are basing your argument on emotions which is irrational.
Marriage must be between a man and a woman. That is the definition of marriage. And that definition is in harmony with human nature, gender, male and female.
Gay marriage is a bogus idea made up out of nothing rational. Two men or two women getting married is not the same as a man and a woman getting married.
Two men can love and commit to each other but it will not be marriage. That’s like calling masturbation marriage because you are in love with and totally committed to whacking off.
Such ideas are ridiculous and completely unacceptable and ironically they demean the romantic love that gay people have for their lovers.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Ha! Don’t start with that definition of marriage garbage. Do you have any idea how many times various cultures have altered the definition of marriage? If you’re committed to the original definition, then women are property of their fathers, and when they are married, become property of their husbands. People don’t get to choose who to marry, either. Marriages were arranged like business transactions.
Marriage is something we are free to redefine as our values as a culture evolve, and it is sad that our values have not evolved beyond discrimination and bigotry.
Masturbation is not a mutual love and commitment between two adults, now is it? (No, those voices in your head don’t count as other people.)
@grizzlybearr - @QuantumStorm - I love Amish people. Can I join the community, too!?!
@Maverick83 - You base your entire argument on emotion. That’s garbage.
The definition of marriage is another one of the obvious facts that you continue to hallucinate into your alternative reality.
In your alternative reality marriage is garbage. In this reality, the one where sane, rational people exist, marriage is what it is: the union between a man and a woman.
Human nature is what it is: gender, male and female.
Why is reality so hard for you to grasp?
@clumsyandunaware - But of course! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg
@QuantumStorm -
I’ve never seen a Catholic church teaching that said that being a homosexual was a sin.
Here’s an article showing that it’s an intrinsic moral evil, disorder, and depravity. And it is not morally acceptable. LINK
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I base my definition of marriage on the emotions and conditions that I believe constitute the essence of marriage. I base my argument on the entirely logical assertion that those emotions and conditions exist in homosexual and heterosexual couples, and that as such, homosexual couples should not be denied the same legal status as heterosexual couples. That in the interest of equality, any society which values human rights is compelled to grant the same status and the same legal rights to homosexuals and heterosexuals alike, and that that is a necessary part of rejecting any stigma which portrays homosexuals, or anyone for that matter, as anything less than a human being, deserving of the same dignity and respect as the rest of us.
@musterion99 - It says right in the beginning few statements: “It is NOT a sin for someone to have homosexual feelings. Homosexuality becomes a sin only when these desires are acted upon and practiced with a member of the same sex.”
That’s what I’m talking about. People don’t distinguish between the orientation and the act. By that argument, since I’m a virgin, I should be classified as an asexual since I have no sexual history.
You don’t need to act on an orientation to be of that orientation. Just as I don’t need to have sex with a woman in order to BE heterosexual.
@QuantumStorm - Ok, so you are saying that if homosexuals have sex, then it’s a sin. Do you see any connection when Jesus said if you look upon a woman to lust after, you’ve committed adultery? If a homosexual lusts after another guy/girl, have they committed the sin of homosexuality?
@musterion99 - Lust is bad, regardless of the orientation. Hence I fail to see why we should single out homosexuality in that case by ONLY expanding the sin of lust to include orientation when talking about gay people. If homosexual orientation is inherently evil because of the lustful thoughts, then by that argument, heterosexual orientations are evil, too, because heterosexuals have lustful thoughts as well. If a homosexual lusts after someone, they’ve committed the sin of lust, the same sin that a heterosexual commits when he/she lusts after someone of the opposite gender. Again, I’m not sure what the sin of “homosexuality” is because I don’t see where being a homosexual is itself evil.
@QuantumStorm - The reason why maybe homosexuality is singled out is because they don’t acknowledge that having homosexual sex is a sin and a lot of them speak against the bible. Most people acknowledge that adultery is wrong.
@musterion99 - It probably has more to do with the theology of sin and how different denominations view human culpability and matters of sexuality. I’ve seen a lot of Christians (usually Protestants but on rare occasion, some Catholics) who fail to distinguish between the orientation and the sex act or the lustful acts. I don’t think it has to do with the behavior of homosexuals so much, because I know of quite a few gay people who are also devout Christians. I think people need to have a better grasp on the moral dimensions of human sexuality as well as the concept of lust, otherwise they needlessly lump the orientation with the sin while failing to see the logical inconsistency of such an argument.
@QuantumStorm -
who fail to distinguish between the orientation and the sex act or the lustful acts.
If you look again at the link I gave you, it didn’t make a distinction. It didn’t say that homosexuals that have sex are evil, disordered, and depraved. It said homosexual “persons” are.
@musterion99 - You didn’t read the link properly. Again, I quote from the link:
“ It is NOT a sin for someone to have homosexual feelings. Homosexuality becomes a sin only when these desires are acted upon and practiced with a member of the same sex.”
“Yes, homosexuals may belong to the Catholic Church.”
Show me where it says that homosexual persons are evil.
@QuantumStorm - You stopped reading after that. It says – ” and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.”
@musterion99 - An objective disorder does not mean it is sinful. There is a distinction in Catholic theology between something that is disordered, and something that is actually sinful or evil.
Again, I want to see where the link says homosexual persons are evil.
@QuantumStorm - Ok, so you agree that homosexuals are disordered. They probably wouldn’t like hearing that they’re disordered.
@musterion99 - In a church tradition context, it is disordered relative to the Church’s view on the sex act. From a scientific standpoint, that’s another matter altogether. Please show me where being a homosexual was a sin in Catholic teaching or that it was evil.
@QuantumStorm - You’re right that it doesn’t say it’s a sin but are you agreeing that they are disordered?
@musterion99 - Did you read my last response?
@QuantumStorm - Yes, but you edited it after I replied. So the Church’s view is that homosexuals are disordered. Even if it’s relative to the sex act, do you think homosexuals would like or agree that they are disordered or that the sex acts are sinful and evil?
@musterion99 - I figured adding two more sentences might explain it better in that response.
Well, based on my discussions with homosexuals who are practicing Catholics, some of whom are close friends of mine, that’s how they view it, too. They see it as a burden in the same way that you or I would view any other elements of concupiscence as a disorder that COULD lead to sin but doesn’t always have to. Scientifically? That’s a whole other issue. And unlike many other denominations, there’s nothing in Church teaching that says they need to be “cured” of it or that it is something that needs to be “fixed”.
@QuantumStorm - It doesn’t need to be fixed as long as they don’t have sex. if they want to have sex, then it would need to be fixed.
@musterion99 - Again, where in church teaching does it say homosexuals need to be “fixed” of their orientation if they’re having sex?
@QuantumStorm - You said it’s a sin when the homosexual desires were acted upon. The only way they can have sex that’s not a sin is if they get married and have sex with someone of the opposite gender.
@musterion99 - Yes, or they can choose to be chaste, like so many countless people, both straight and otherwise, have done throughout history.
I’m in agreement with @TiredSoVeryTired -
@Maverick83 - You don’t have the authority to establish definitions that negate millenia of human history, not to mentions simple common sense.
Your comment is an example of you hallucinating your way past the intractable problems that gay marriage presents to logic, human nature and human rights.
I’m not interested in dealing with your hallucinations. Civilization is based on reason not hallucination.
And therein lies the existential challenge that Christians now face.
We are up against a group of people who offer not logic, not reason, not common sense, not wholesomeness, but a hallucinated alternative reality that will bring pure hell on Earth if we don’t put a stop to it.
@QuantumStorm - Then why did you ask ”where in church teaching does it say homosexuals need to be “fixed” of their orientation if they’re having sex?”, if you then say ”or they can choose to be chaste” ?
If they’re chaste, they’re not having sex. If they’re having sex, it’s a sin.
@musterion99 - If they are having sex with someone of the same gender, yes. The ACT is the sin, not the person. The act itself is not intrinsically linked with the person’s orientation.
@QuantumStorm - How is it not linked with orientation when it’s not a sin for heterosexuals but it is for homosexuals?
@musterion99 - What are you talking about? So if I slept with a guy, it’s not a sin because I’m heterosexual?
@musterion99 - See, by your argument, if I slept with a woman who was married to someone else, it would not be sin because I’m a heterosexual. Do you see how that not makes sense?
@QuantumStorm - You misunderstood me. It’s not a sin for married heterosexuals to have sex. It is a sin for homosexuals to have sex. Why? Because of their orientation. What other reason is it a sin for homosexuals to have sex other than their orientation?
@musterion99 - You’re missing the distinction between the act and the orientation. It is a sin for a person, REGARDLESS of their orientation, to engage in sex with a person of the same gender. That is what is defined as a HOMOSEXUAL act. It doesn’t mean that homosexuals who have sex of ANY kind are committing a sin merely by having sex. The key is the act, not the orientations of the people involved.
@QuantumStorm - I don’t think I’m missing the distinction. I think you are. The orientation that’s relevant is when having sex with the same gender, whether they’re homosexual or bisexual.
That is what is defined as a HOMOSEXUAL act. It doesn’t mean that homosexuals who have sex of ANY kind are committing a sin merely by having sex.
Are you speaking of a homosexual getting married to an opposite gender person and having sex? That’s not what I was referring to.
@musterion99 - The sex act doesn’t define the orientation. If a straight person engages in sex with someone of the same gender, it doesn’t mean he/she is now gay any more than if the opposite happened.
What I’m saying is that the sin is not based on the person’s orientation. That’s why I’m saying, you are missing the distinction between the orientation and the act. One does not necessarily proceed from the other.
@QuantumStorm - We’ve gotten way off from what I was speaking about. I was speaking of homosexuals having sex with each other. And in that circumstance, orientation is relevant. You’re right that in those other circumstances, it’s not based upon orientation. And that’s where I think you are missing the distinction.
It seems obvious that we’re not going to agree so I have nothing more to add. If you want to add something else, go ahead.
@musterion99 - Uh, actually, no it’s not relevant, even in that situation. It’s the act, not the orientation, that is the issue. And thus I maintain, you are not understanding the distinction between the orientation of a person, and the actions he/she chooses to engage in.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Our values evolve over time. Putting an end to slavery “negated millenia of human history”. Giving women the right to vote, and to have careers “negated millenia of human history”. Curing dieases with medicine “negated millenia of human history”. Putting a man on the moon “negated millenia of human history”. Need I go on? Things change. People and societies advance and become more intelligent. With any luck, they manage to overcome the ignorance and prejudice that divides them. I’m sorry you continue to resist doing so. Holding up tradition as a defense, and devising selective interpretations of human nature, might help you pretend there’s something honorable about it, that you’re actually defending something, but really, it’s just sad.
“We are up against a group of people who offer not logic, not reason, not common sense, not wholesomeness, but a hallucinated alternative reality that will bring pure hell on Earth if we don’t put a stop to it.”
Said every opponent of progress, ever.
@musterion99 - Also, after this convo, I was reminded of this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm_0YgTbIDM
Hehehe
@Maverick83 - Slavery, like gay marriage, is an affront to humanity because it violates human nature.
Acceptance of gay marriage is a degradation of values not an evolution to a higher set of values.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - You have a lot to learn about human nature. It’s human nature, for example, to fear what is different, and to respond to that fear by attempting to exert control over what one feels threatened by. Greed is human nature, too. That’s what motivates people to violate the rights of others, for their own convenience. Slavery doesn’t violate human nature, it’s a result of human nature. So is bigotry, and that’s all opposing gay marriage is. Bigotry.
Is this a trick question?? I already know what you believe.
@Maverick83 - Since gender is an obvious part of human nature, it isn’t necessary to know much about human nature to understand that gay marriage is a bogus idea.
Your attempt at making your hallucinations and your inability to see the obvious into something sophisticated is described by the old adage that is critical of someone who tries to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Belief in gay marriage requires the rejection of science, philosophy, common sense and the Christian religion. That means to accept gay marriage we must all reject Western Civilization, the greatest, most prosperous, most just civilization in human history.
You people need to go to an island and try out your barbarism so it doesn’t damage the rest of us. And when you get tired of living like flies, come back and join Christian civilization so you can live like human beings.
@QuantumStorm - Science and Revelation are in harmony since they have the same Author.
@musterion99 - Being a homosexual is not a sin anymore than being heterosexual is a sin. Neither humanity or chastity is a function of sexual orientation.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I’m not going to repeat everything I already said. Between two homosexuals, it is orientation. If it wasn’t, then it would not be a sin for homosexuals to have sex with each other. It has everything to do with their orientation. And as I told Quantum, I have nothing more to add, so you can reply back but I won’t.
@musterion99 - The question is whether or not it is a sin simply being a homosexual. The answer to that question is no. Sexual orientation is not a sin.
The sin is having sexual relations outside of marriage. Since marriage is only between a man and a woman, homosexuals are called to lives of chastity as are all single people.
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@PrisonerxOfxLove - This is getting old. You’re wrong, and you’re the only one “hallucinating” as you put it, here. I still have no idea whether you’re trolling or you actually believe the nonsense you’re sputtering, but either way, you must be very unfilfilled, in your personal life. You and anyone who agrees with you, are this generation’s segregationists, and like them, it won’t be long before you’re remembered as a shameful part of this country’s history.