December 31, 2009
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Rick Warren
I was bothered concerning Christians reactions to Rick Warren and President Obama. I did some research concerning Billy Graham and President Clinton. What I found was strikingly simular to Rick Warren and President Obama.
What happened before Bill Clinton was sworn in:
40 religious leaders wrote Billy Graham, urging him to skip the swearing in
Billy Graham refused to take advice from anyone who suggested he shouldn’t pray.
Billy Graham said, “No president stands outside the need for God’s constant help and guidance.” & “Furthermore, the Scripture commands us to pray for all those in autority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.”Billy Graham, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton became good friends.
Comments (10)
Billy Graham and Rick Warren are giants in the faith. Most people being critical of them are not.
Hahaha, if I were either of those men, I’d reject the endorsement of a man who has women send him topless photos and posts them on his site (no offense there, Dan….but you’re not exactly a “giant in the faith” YOURSELF!! Happy New Year, my friend!!)
Randy, just to clarify my own position on Rick Warren and Obama, I never objected to him praying at the Inauguration but he DROPPED THE BALL in his prayers and he got PRAISED for it, as if his prayer was a GREAT one. How did he drop the ball?? 1.) he never prayed against our NATIONAL SINS, but dared to ask God to bless us ANYway. And 2.) he never prayed for the new President’s SALVATION, he prayed for him like he was a CHRISTIAN. This PC “prayer” is what I objected to…..pray for Obama AND pray for America, YES!!! But pray for both AS THEY REALLY ARE. America is a sinful nation that has been blessed greatly but is REBELLIOUS, as witnessed by the prominent sins of abortion and homosexuality, to name a few. And Barack Obama is not SAVED, if we are to know men by their fruits. To pray for America as if we’re worthy to be blessed and for Obama like hved in simply INSINCERE.
So my objection to Rick is not that he prayed at the Inauguration, it’s what he DID pray and what he DIDN’T pray.
As for Billy Graham, there may WELL have been the same failure when he prayed at Bill Clinton’s Inauguration, I don’t know, I honestly wasn’t paying that much attention but I doubt that the failure was nearly as BLATANT. I do know that Dr. Graham seemed to be going “downhill” from a mental standpoint at that time (he was 72 when Clinton was inuagurated the first time). I also remember that when Clinton got involved in the Lewinsky scandal 6 years into his Presidency, Dr. Graham issued a controversial statement about “he can’t help himself, all the women chase after him” which seemed to exonerate the President for his infidelities, and this angered quite a few people….he later RETRACTED that statement and seemed to defer to FRANKLIN from that point on.
To compare Billy and Rick Warren as you do, however, seems a bit unfair. Rick Warren seems to be about one thing: MONEY. Billy Graham was about PREACHING THE GOSPEL. I don’t recall either of them getting involved much in the OTHER thing. Happy New Year, my brother in Christ!! Thanks for an interesting post.
The last sentence in paragraph two should read as follows….
“And Barack Obama is not SAVED, if we are to know men by their fruits. To pray for America as if we’re worthy to be blessed and for Obama like he’s saved in simply INSINCERE.” (I wish you had that EDITING feature!!!)
@TheTheologiansCafe - Dan, I mentioned you in my comment above, and as I don’t want to talk behind your back here I’m linking you to make you aware of it. But hey, we both know what we think of each other, right??
P.S., yes, Bill and Hillary and Billy Graham DID become good friends….I was at a rally of Graham’s in NYC where they showed up and spoke a few summers ago. The Clintons EXPLOITED Dr. Graham there in his latter years, I’m not sure what your point is by bringing up their friendship….
@clintspirations -
I don’t have bad feelings for you. I don’t make it a habit to have bad feelings to people I have only met on the Internet.
I stand by my statement: “Billy Graham and Rick Warren are giants in the faith. Most people being critical of them are not.” Anyone who has read the Bible can see that these men have flaws but they have lived their life in serving God. They are faithful to God and have lived their lives above reproach. What is wrong with praying for the President?
Once again, the Save the Boobs campaign was to help earn free mammograms for women who are poor and have no insurance.
@TheTheologiansCafe - I see you are resorting to your usual tactic of asking a question that simultaneously twists what the other person is saying. I never said ANYTHING is wrong with praying for the President, but again, that we should pray with him according to REALITY, we should pray he’ll get SAVED because he ISN’T. I’d ask you to RE-READ my earlier comments but Randy DELETED them (and one of YOUR comments.)
Randy, why did you DELETE Dan’s first comment, and MINE?? Do you, or do you NOT want to have an honest dialogue around here?? Let it stand that the first one in Rick Warren’s defense is a ”Theologian” who posts topless pics of women on his xanga site…..it’s extremely relevant to the conversation, in my opinion. And, let MY responses to him, and to your post, stand.
I did a screenshot of my comments as soon as I put them up FEARING you’d delete them, and I’m going to do the same with THIS comment…..but if you delete THIS one, I think I’m going to write about Rick in the next issue of my magazine using my comments here as a starting point. And, I’m not going to waste my time commenting here EITHER. If you disagree with someone, try REFUTING, not DELETING them.
Happy New Year, brother!!
I must apologize, you DIDN’T delete our first two comments….my page showed that you did. I accused you falsely, and I’m SORRY. Please forgive me.
@clintspirations -
My friend, I would usually just let this issue go but we are all Christians here. So let me just ask you to reread your comments here.
Randy simply said he was bothered that some Christians responded the way they did to Rick Warren praying for President Obama. He then compared it to the situation where Billy Graham was able to develop a relationship with Bill Clinton. Randy saw it as a positive that a Christian Pastor could connect with the President. I agreed with Randy and said that Billy Graham and Rick Warren are spiritual giants. I said “most” of the people being critical of them are not.
I don’t need to hear a pastor explain to me why he would go pray for a president. Some may say they are being taken advantage of. That is ok. They should still go and pray. If President Obama called me tonight at home and asked me to pray for him, I would get in my car and go pray for him.
But you appeared offended by our words. And you attacked. Then you made a side reference that had nothing to do with praying for the president. We can go in circles on the issue but realize that God created Adam and Eve nude so nudity is not in itself a sin. God cannot sin. We need to realize the difference between our cultural understanding of nudity and a Biblical approach to nudity. Nudity is not a sin. God created Adam and Eve naked.
Then you thought Randy had deleted your comment and the poor guy is probably just busy doing something on the New Years. To your credit, you admitted you were wrong and said you were sorry. I admit that you said you were sorry before so you are not above admitted you are wrong. That is a great quality.
I think it might be worth rereading your comments here and asking yourself if you are thinking the best of others. Perhaps if a pastor is asked to pray for a president, he should go and pray for him. Perhaps he doesn’t need in that moment to correct everything that is wrong. Perhaps he is thinking he will wait for the right opportunity to correct anything he sees that is wrong down the line.
To the best of my knowledge, President Obama is a Christian. I believe He claims Jesus as his Lord and Savior. I think it is also nice that he calls on a strong Christian to pray for him. If he gets in trouble and he is in a problem, maybe he will call on Rick Warren and ask for spiritual guidance. I imagine being a president is such a hard job and I am glad President Obama knows he can call on someone like Rick Warren in his hour of need.
Randy, I appreciate your spirit and your allowing us to discuss this issue in this Christian context.
@TheTheologiansCafe - Thanks – You summed up exactly the point I was trying to bring out. Billy Graham showed grace as well as Rick Warren. Thanks and Have a Great New Years.
@clintspirations - I just was able to get back on and saw all the comments. It appeared you had a conversation with me while I wasn’t here. Well that seems to be the story of my life – lol. I’ve been studying Billy Graham’s life and he had a lot of people who were critical of him. He refused to follow the negativity and went with grace. Billy Graham and Bill Clinton were very close. Billy Graham helped Hillary forgive Bill, when no other Christian in America would. Christians were calling for the head of Bill Clinton. Billy Graham loved Bill Clinton during that time. So we need to take his comment concerning Bill Clinton in that light. Bill Clinton had a mother that was very loose. She had men at home when Bill was growing up. It doesn’t excuse what the President did, but it does shine a little more light upon the subject. We need to hold our leaders accountable but I appreciate Christian leaders that show grace and love. I appreciated Rick Warren’s prayer. It would of been so wrong of him to rebuke the President of the United States in a prayer. I don’t agree with President Obama in everything but I can say I love the man and his family because of my heart sincere prayers for him. I can’t say I would believe many Christian leaders or Christians if they made that comment because of the harsh words they have for our President. A common theme that many Presidents have spoken about Billy Graham (excect Truman) was: “Billy Graham loved and cared about me.” Maybe Rick Warren is trying to be a Pastor to the unsaved Presidents. As Christians don’t we owe him some room to do what he feels God is calling him to do? After all we don’t know what is happening behind the scenes. You have a great New Years.