February 27, 2011
-
You Decide
You are on a jury and you have to bring back a guilty or innocent verdict. (Based on a real life scenario)
A guy using the internet admits he helps people commit suicide. He hunts down people and then talks them through the process. He lets them know what to expect. A few people have actually committed suicide because of his encouragement. (If you can use the word encouragement in this context) He’s going to court. His defense: I can do this because it’s freedom of speech.Does this guy have freedom of speech to do this? How far does freedom of speech go?
If you’re interested I’m reading and reviewing a book in our Signet Group. Here is my review of Chapter 2:
Relational IntelligenceI’m reading and reviewing a book in CM group. Here is my review of the introduction: Postmodern Children’s Ministry
Comments (40)
There is no law against what he is doing, but he sounds like a predator to me.
William Melchert-Dinkel is his name)
Even though what he did is totally wrong, I don’t think he broke this law. “Encouraging” these people to commit suicide wasn’t his choice, but the person’s as well. I’m sure they wanted help in doing so …
It’s the “hunts down people” part that bothers me. I believe that “freedom of speech” may not be applicable in this case. Assisted suicide is, as the British might say, “a sticky wicket”. The situation with Dr. Jack Kevorkian was an example. ~~Blessings ‘n Cheers
@jennylovve - There is evidence he tricked the people. He claimed to make a suicide pack with them, but never intented to commit suicide himself. Still innocent?
@DonnaLou - I agree with you. I think freedom of speech ends when it hurts another person. These people were emotionally distraught. Do I have the freedom of speech to convince a mentally disabled person of steeling? I don’t think so.
@Randy7777 - He tricked them and they thought he was gonna commit suicide as well, but again.. it was their choice. I’d think they wanted to commit suicide no matter if he did.
There is freedom of speech but not when the outcome of their actions had terrible consequences. The fact that he looks for people who are willing is worrying to.
If I encourage you to rob a bank and you do it, I am an accessory and can be charged. Why not here? I have freedom of speech to say anything I want about you? No, it could be slanderous. I have freedom of speech to write anything I want about another person? Again, no! The law is clear that there are actions for going too far. I believe this falls into that category.
A sad individual. What was him motivation? It sounds “criminal” the way he tricked his victims.
It may be legal, but it doesn’t sound ethical or kind.
@Margo73 - Agreed
@jennylovve - One of the ladies lost a child and was in depression after it. It was a season in her life. Interesting debate – thanks.
@Kowpatty - Yes – so true – I have a right to swing my hands but not when it stricks another person.
@Dominie - His motivation: He was drawn to death by suicide. Apparently he studied it throughly.
@C_L_O_G - Hopefully it’s ruled illegal.
@C_L_O_G - My answer exactly.
love your “don’t like change leave it here post.” I’ve been passing it on all day.”
well, this is something that the medical world has bee dealing with since I went to nursing school back in 1970- Ethics
@Babyboomerjill – I suspect freedom of speech is going to be tested a lot more within the next few years. -explosion of information.
@gottobereal64 - Hopefully it’s clearly made illegal.
Hmmm. While it doesn’t sound illegal, the guy is definitely a douchebag for telling people he’ll commit suicide with them for no other reason than to get them to kill themselves. Since it’s not “illegal” per se, maybe someone should follow him around and be there to convince his prey that suicide is not the answer – that wouldn’t be illegal either.
@guestbrief -
What this person said. The legality of it is apparent, the morality is what’s difficult to determine.
There has been a time in Oregon where assisted suicide was legal.
It sounds illegal for sure..I mean wouldn’t it be assisting in a murder?
I don’t like it. I could see it being tried as an accomplice to murder as stephensmustang suggested, and I can see that being really controversial and going to the supreme court. I can also see that not happening. More truthfully, I can’t see any of it.
Wasn’t that mother who badgered a rival of her daughter’s on MySpace not charged with a crime, though the girl committed suicide? I believe cyberbullying laws are beginning to appear, but the only laws I can think of which pertain to this are those prohibiting assisted suicide. Hopefully he doesn’t live in Oregon or Washington state.
Even though assisted suicide in Oregon is legal, it requires the prescription from a doctor, a terminal patient, and written documents of request and a statement that the person has been informed of the consequences and is doing it voluntarily.
I don’t think what this man did was ethical or moral. He preyed on people with an illness. They might be able to get him on a lesser murder charge for that. But I fear not 1st or 2nd degree murder.
I wonder, though. I recall some news about a nurse doing this. If that’s true, why can’t they add grievous carges to reflect the nurse’s greater medical knowledge, which would have given him a greater ability to disseminate suicide advice as well being able to persuade people to commit suicide. I’ve hear that occasionally people possessing greater physical training in martial arts and what not are charged with a higher degree than those who do not because of their knowledge if they kill someone. Perhaps they could extend that precedence here?
People are confusing freedom with anarchy. In any civil society there must be norms or rules. If not, well then its a free for all.
@Kenny_Tha_Killa - Interesting – It brings up another question – When does stocking people go to far?
@laytexduckie - Assisted suicide – creepy
@stephensmustang - I would think so.
@EthanHelm - You’re probally right about it going to the Supreme Court
@GeneralRapunzel - Cyber bully laws seem like it’s in its infancy. Sounds like it’s time to grow up in the legal field.
@The_Eyes_Of_A_Painter - So very true – We have a few nations as examples.
cool..
he must be a mental case – he must be checked by some psychologist…
@Randy7777 - Once you’ve violated a restraining order, I guess.
@alwateen - Absolutely – but then he could get off by reason of insanity.
@china_doll26 - Have a great day.
the world is getting to be too much imformation
In general I believe that people are responsible for their own decisions. If someone tells you, encourages you, or even begs you to do something that’s bad for you they are a sick kind of evil. However, in the end, you make the choice. In my opinion encouraging someone to commit suicide or to do anything else bad for them is not a crime because I strongly believe that we are all responsible for our own actions.
Yes. Well, cyberbullying isn’t the only area in which the legal field needs to mature. Unfortunately the law trails technology, and as most of the legal system in the US is based on common law rather than civil (precedent with some statute vs codified), it takes that much longer.