…for appointing Roberts who is turning out to another big lib.
It makes me truly proud to be an American.
Hey, the Supreme Court made its decision and they determined it was legal. So everyone is just going to have to accept it.
I don’t think this is a sign that Roberts is a liberal. He is a conservative. But he appears to try and decide according to the rule of the constitution. This will get him called a liberal or a conservative at times. But I think he just tries to rule according to the constitution.
I think businesses & jobs everywhere are getting screwed & they WILL pass the buck to us, so guess what we get…….
Taxation of behavior. I hardly think that’s constitutional, but may not be the worst of this mammoth disaster. This current administration has pushed through mush which in a sane world would not stand a prayer in a free society.
I don’t agree with the Court’s reasoning, but it is their job to make that determination and we have to live with it. However, that it’s Constitutional does not mean it’s a good idea.
@TheTheologiansCafe - Roberts is NOT a conservative. The conservatives on the court voted that Obama Care was unconstitutional.
Roberts voted with the liberals.
If you want to find out what a conservative justice looks like, read Scalia, Alito and Thomas.
As William Grigg notes, “Any constitution merely prolongs the pretense that political government can be limited by laws that it will interpret. Eventually every constitutional government will embrace Lenin’s ruling forumla: ‘Power without limit, resting directly on force.’ This has been the steady progression of things since the concluding volley of our American Revolution and so it will continue until the next one where we’ll start this whole thing all over again.
That said, I think the law is a real piece of shit. That’s my perspective as a healthcare provider as well as a private citizen.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - @New1E13_15 - @TheTheologiansCafe - Roberts may or may not be a conservative, depending on your definition of conservative. I think, whatever he is, he’s foolish and wonder what went on behind the scenes. Taxation of behavior is one thing. Taxation of non-behavior, is another. If a new class of taxes is created, taxing non-behaviors, we’ve commenced a whole new level of government intrusion in our lives, with the government compelling us to reveal to them certain things we do or don’t do so they can tax us for the things we didn’t do. Mark my word.
I’d be interested to hear the opinions of the talking heads on both sides, but after I heard the decision and read major portions of it, I was so disgusted, I logged out of the big world and went swimming with the kids.
@New1E13_15 - Um, you get taxed differently if you get married, have kids, live a certain distance from your job, have an office in your home, give to charity and a million other things. But people are acting like this is new.
@MedicMark - Your nuance and insight is breathtaking. Please bestow upon us more intelligent political analysis, oh font of wisdom.
@lightnindan - As I said above, nothing new. I get taxed more for not getting married and not having kids and not giving to charity and not doing a zillion other things. If a republican does something it’s good, if a democrat does something it’s evil. That is all this is, dishonest partisan spin.
As I said in my new blog, the heritage foundation came up with the individual mandate and republicans were pushing for it until obama agreed with them, then they started smearing it as evil and dangerous.
@lightnindan - Liberal is defined as agreeing with Obama Care like Roberts did. Conservative is voting against it.
Simple.
I just cannot believe what I am reading here. When there are so many people who have lost everything because of sickness, you complain about taxes, when what was passed through the Supreme courts will benefit those who really need it.
I agree with it. To mandate that ppl buy someone is only trivially different from taxing them and using those taxes to buy that very same thing. One’s personal opinion on Obamacare should hold no relevance on this, only it’s constitutionality, and i don’t think the Supreme court should be in the business of ruling laws unconstitutional for trivial reasons. I am, however, surprised that it was justice Roberts that sided with the liberal justices to pass this opinion.
All you have to do is look at England, Greece, Italy. That’s what we can expect. So glad my hope is in God and not in the Supreme Court
People don’t want the death of babies on their hands but would they want the death of the poor on their hands? Indigent care (care for the poor) is provided by the hospitals that have emergency rooms.
Nonetheless the price of hospital care will continue to rise. Also the price of medicine will also be going up. People who hate Obama care may be omitting that they have no alternative. The alternatives is just as scary as No Obamacare.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - That’s interesting. So having one slight change of opinion alters that person entirely. Well, good luck with that. Soon the whole Republican party will be liberal soon… Thanks for alienating your base. Oh and by the way did you know Romney supports immigrations laws similar to what Obama issued in his executive order? Guess that means Romney is a liberal.
In my eyes, and I think most Independents and Liberals, Roberts will always be a Republican.
@TheDeadWhale - The difference between liberal and conservative is not slight. The two ideologies exist in separate universes.
And Romney’s policies on immigration are indeed problematic. And I don’t think that anyone ever claimed that Romney was a conservative.
He comes from the Northeast, after all.
@PPhilip - Oh they’re up in arms when it comes to an unborn baby, but once that baby is born they could give two shits if it ends up a poor adult. Hypocrisy abound. Sad really…
Juridically, I question how something not considered a tax in the first of the four Obamacare rulings is later treated as a tax under the Legislative Branch’s Tax and Spend powers. Also, I do not legally understand why Obamacare which did not have the severability language was not entirely struck down by the reliance on the Commerce clause.
I have to read the decisions, but it may reflect CJ Robert’s caution against judicial activism. But i does allow the people to make laws AND to correct them.
Things to consider are political in nature. This tags Democrats with the biggest tax increases ever! The President can not run against neither the Republicans nor the Supremes about health care. The Tea Party has been revitalized. Repealing Obamacare (which is a popular sentiment) suddenly becomes the number one campaign issue. And it’s insider DC baseball, but since Obamacare is a tax, the House can repeal it and the Senate can not filibuster it under budgetary reconcilliation rules. Moreover, it’s a bit far fetched, but since the Senate voted on Obamacare first, it might not be valid as all tax bills must eminate from the House (but this may have been achieved through reconcilliation).
It scares me. Lots of people in our area work for the orthopedic companies. They are afraid of losing their jobs.
Scary. Very scary.
very, very happy. the law has already helped me and my family immensely, and it can continue to do so. and i’d be against the mandate if the uninsured were denied health care, instead of receiving it and passing the cost on to the rest of us.
@flapper_femme_fatale - The mandate was held to be unconstitutional. But Justice Roberts like all megalomanical judges loves to appoint himself with legislative powers and write new law that lasts for ever.
He committed a Jesus and changed an unconstitutional mandate into a constitutional tax. Which means we were all hoodwinked by our government.
Obama swore up and down that the mandate was not a tax.
Unless the Obama Care is revoked by the next Congress, the United States will experience the greatest tax increase in human history.
And that will slaughter any future your generation has of achieving a prosperous life because such heavy taxation will kill the global economy and never ever be enough to pay for the costs incurred by Obama Care aka The Unaffordable Care Act.
We’ve gone down a slippery slope where we hold elected officials responsible for things we want -regardless of whether it’s the function of government to provide it- by using our power of voting improperly. Had we refrained from this perversion of power back in the 60′s, we’d not have such a bad economy that we need government to provide health insurance. However, like all slippery slopes, once you’ve started down it, there is little chance of stopping it.
@TheDeadWhale - Sorry to crush your conceit but the pro life movement cares for more than the defenseless baby in a mother’s womb. Alternate family counseling facilitates WIC and for pragmatic needs for crises pregnancies, adoptions. There are also truly remarkable adoptive parents who are willing to care for children who are not physically perfect.
On the other end of the continuum, there are advocates for ailing folk who are dying but not dead yet to ensure that they receive standard care and are not ignored by medical professionals who only want to treat what they can fix, quick draw bean counters, or those a little too anxious to harvest organs.
@Randy7777 - While that may be true, the judicial branch ought not be concerned about partisan politics. Their job, particularly at SCOTUS should be centered on the constitutionality of a law.
@Randy7777 - i was able to get back on my mother’s insurance for an extra year (just turned 26), and that meant i could afford to see my doctor about my anxiety and start taking meds for it. also, my family is very healthconscious (my mother works in a hospital) and we are all about preventative care vs. waiting til you’re about to die before seeing a doctor. i see my PCP once or twice a year, or any time i feel ill. i also see my gynecologist once a year, my eye doctor two or three times because i wear contacts, and my dentist twice a year for regular cleanings. so i also like that preventative care is now available without co-pay.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - my life is already prosperous, thank you very much. Obamacare just made it even better
@flapper_femme_fatale - That kind of “wealth” is not yours, though, since you didn’t earn it.
The problem with government programs is that they demand that people not be bothered by such things as stealing.
If you are happy with that, you are happy with immorality as long as you can benefit from it.
Such a society is not a just society.
Is it the law of the land based on the court, yes. However the majority stretched the idea of taxation beyond proper limits. Consesus does not make it right. The greatest weakness of any government such as our own is the weakness from inside. Furthermore that one side must be law abiding to maintain its moral high ground while the other constantly rewrites and redefifines laws.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I have to wonder how many companies that now give healthcare to their employees will opt out and pay the 2000 dollar tax per employee tax verses the several thousands of dollars they pay per year.
@brown_buffalo - I’d even go back further – President Roosevelt. Good Point
@districtofcalamity - Doesn’t look like Roberts was solely looking at the constitutionality of this law because he had to actually rewrite it in order to make his ruling. It was a stretch to say it was a tax.
@New1E13_15 - Yes – What Roberts ruled was: “The court is not going to be the ultimate decider of this: The voters will be.”
“That kind of “wealth” is not yours, though, since you didn’t earn it. ” the uninsured and broke didn’t earn the wealth spent on their care that they didn’t have to pay for. what’s the difference? as i said, i’d only be against the mandate if health care was denied to those who could not pay for it.
@flapper_femme_fatale - You said you were as prosperous as you wanted to be. And I pointed out that whatever wealth you thought you had came from others.
That has nothing to do with truly needy individuals.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - i never said i was as prosperous as i want to be. i said i am prosperous. and i’m not talking about just money.
there are better things in this life than being rich, and i’m fortunate enough to be most of them. as for needy? i don’t consider it needy when an individual is capable of having health insurance and refuses to do so, since they’re emergency room visits will be passed on to others. that’s no different than someone refusing to get a job because they’re happy with how much unemployment they receive.
Comments (52)
I’m going to pull an Obama and blame Bush…
…for appointing Roberts who is turning out to another big lib.
It makes me truly proud to be an American.
Hey, the Supreme Court made its decision and they determined it was legal. So everyone is just going to have to accept it.
I don’t think this is a sign that Roberts is a liberal. He is a conservative. But he appears to try and decide according to the rule of the constitution. This will get him called a liberal or a conservative at times. But I think he just tries to rule according to the constitution.
I think businesses & jobs everywhere are getting screwed & they WILL pass the buck to us, so guess what we get…….
@PrisonerxOfxLove - lol! I didn’t see that coming.
Taxation of behavior. I hardly think that’s constitutional, but may not be the worst of this mammoth disaster. This current administration has pushed through mush which in a sane world would not stand a prayer in a free society.
I don’t agree with the Court’s reasoning, but it is their job to make that determination and we have to live with it. However, that it’s Constitutional does not mean it’s a good idea.
@TheTheologiansCafe - Roberts is NOT a conservative. The conservatives on the court voted that Obama Care was unconstitutional.
Roberts voted with the liberals.
If you want to find out what a conservative justice looks like, read Scalia, Alito and Thomas.
As William Grigg notes, “Any constitution merely prolongs the pretense that political government can be limited by laws that it will interpret. Eventually every constitutional government will embrace Lenin’s ruling forumla: ‘Power without limit, resting directly on force.’ This has been the steady progression of things since the concluding volley of our American Revolution and so it will continue until the next one where we’ll start this whole thing all over again.
That said, I think the law is a real piece of shit. That’s my perspective as a healthcare provider as well as a private citizen.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - @New1E13_15 - @TheTheologiansCafe - Roberts may or may not be a conservative, depending on your definition of conservative. I think, whatever he is, he’s foolish and wonder what went on behind the scenes. Taxation of behavior is one thing. Taxation of non-behavior, is another. If a new class of taxes is created, taxing non-behaviors, we’ve commenced a whole new level of government intrusion in our lives, with the government compelling us to reveal to them certain things we do or don’t do so they can tax us for the things we didn’t do. Mark my word.
I’d be interested to hear the opinions of the talking heads on both sides, but after I heard the decision and read major portions of it, I was so disgusted, I logged out of the big world and went swimming with the kids.
@New1E13_15 - Um, you get taxed differently if you get married, have kids, live a certain distance from your job, have an office in your home, give to charity and a million other things. But people are acting like this is new.
@MedicMark - Your nuance and insight is breathtaking. Please bestow upon us more intelligent political analysis, oh font of wisdom.
@lightnindan - As I said above, nothing new. I get taxed more for not getting married and not having kids and not giving to charity and not doing a zillion other things. If a republican does something it’s good, if a democrat does something it’s evil. That is all this is, dishonest partisan spin.
As I said in my new blog, the heritage foundation came up with the individual mandate and republicans were pushing for it until obama agreed with them, then they started smearing it as evil and dangerous.
@lightnindan - Liberal is defined as agreeing with Obama Care like Roberts did. Conservative is voting against it.
Simple.
I just cannot believe what I am reading here. When there are so many people who have lost everything because of sickness, you complain about taxes, when what was passed through the Supreme courts will benefit those who really need it.
I agree with it. To mandate that ppl buy someone is only trivially different from taxing them and using those taxes to buy that very same thing. One’s personal opinion on Obamacare should hold no relevance on this, only it’s constitutionality, and i don’t think the Supreme court should be in the business of ruling laws unconstitutional for trivial reasons. I am, however, surprised that it was justice Roberts that sided with the liberal justices to pass this opinion.
All you have to do is look at England, Greece, Italy. That’s what we can expect. So glad my hope is in God and not in the Supreme Court
People don’t want the death of babies on their hands but would they want the death of the poor on their hands? Indigent care (care for the poor) is provided by the hospitals that have emergency rooms.
Nonetheless the price of hospital care will continue to rise. Also the price of medicine will also be going up. People who hate Obama care may be omitting that they have no alternative. The alternatives is just as scary as No Obamacare.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - That’s interesting. So having one slight change of opinion alters that person entirely. Well, good luck with that. Soon the whole Republican party will be liberal soon… Thanks for alienating your base. Oh and by the way did you know Romney supports immigrations laws similar to what Obama issued in his executive order? Guess that means Romney is a liberal.
In my eyes, and I think most Independents and Liberals, Roberts will always be a Republican.
@TheDeadWhale - The difference between liberal and conservative is not slight. The two ideologies exist in separate universes.
And Romney’s policies on immigration are indeed problematic. And I don’t think that anyone ever claimed that Romney was a conservative.
He comes from the Northeast, after all.
@PPhilip - Oh they’re up in arms when it comes to an unborn baby, but once that baby is born they could give two shits if it ends up a poor adult. Hypocrisy abound. Sad really…
@PrisonerxOfxLove - That last statement… xD
Juridically, I question how something not considered a tax in the first of the four Obamacare rulings is later treated as a tax under the Legislative Branch’s Tax and Spend powers. Also, I do not legally understand why Obamacare which did not have the severability language was not entirely struck down by the reliance on the Commerce clause.
I have to read the decisions, but it may reflect CJ Robert’s caution against judicial activism. But i does allow the people to make laws AND to correct them.
Things to consider are political in nature. This tags Democrats with the biggest tax increases ever! The President can not run against neither the Republicans nor the Supremes about health care. The Tea Party has been revitalized. Repealing Obamacare (which is a popular sentiment) suddenly becomes the number one campaign issue. And it’s insider DC baseball, but since Obamacare is a tax, the House can repeal it and the Senate can not filibuster it under budgetary reconcilliation rules. Moreover, it’s a bit far fetched, but since the Senate voted on Obamacare first, it might not be valid as all tax bills must eminate from the House (but this may have been achieved through reconcilliation).
It scares me. Lots of people in our area work for the orthopedic companies. They are afraid of losing their jobs.
Scary. Very scary.
very, very happy. the law has already helped me and my family immensely, and it can continue to do so. and i’d be against the mandate if the uninsured were denied health care, instead of receiving it and passing the cost on to the rest of us.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - That was shocking
@TheTheologiansCafe - I agree. We don’t know all the facts of this and so I leave it to the courts.
@Kris0logy - I believe you are right. We will pay for this.
@New1E13_15 - I was a winning argument.
@randomneuralfirings - It think the writings of the court brought that point out.
@MedicMark - As a health care provider: How do you see Obamacare working or not working?
@lightnindan - Behind the scenes: I wonder if Roberts handed the republicans a win in the fall.
@angys_coco - I’d love to agree with you and I hope Obamacare works. I just can’t see it. I guess time will tell.
@feedwaterclean - Well said.
@PPhilip - You’re saying that under the assumption Obamacare will work.
@districtofcalamity - I tend to think that Roberts may have handed the Republicans a win in the fall because of his ruling. We’ll see.
@ata_grandma - Really?
@flapper_femme_fatale - How have you been helped by Obamacare?
@flapper_femme_fatale - The mandate was held to be unconstitutional. But Justice Roberts like all megalomanical judges loves to appoint himself with legislative powers and write new law that lasts for ever.
He committed a Jesus and changed an unconstitutional mandate into a constitutional tax. Which means we were all hoodwinked by our government.
Obama swore up and down that the mandate was not a tax.
Unless the Obama Care is revoked by the next Congress, the United States will experience the greatest tax increase in human history.
And that will slaughter any future your generation has of achieving a prosperous life because such heavy taxation will kill the global economy and never ever be enough to pay for the costs incurred by Obama Care aka The Unaffordable Care Act.
We’ve gone down a slippery slope where we hold elected officials responsible for things we want -regardless of whether it’s the function of government to provide it- by using our power of voting improperly. Had we refrained from this perversion of power back in the 60′s, we’d not have such a bad economy that we need government to provide health insurance. However, like all slippery slopes, once you’ve started down it, there is little chance of stopping it.
@TheDeadWhale - Sorry to crush your conceit but the pro life movement cares for more than the defenseless baby in a mother’s womb. Alternate family counseling facilitates WIC and for pragmatic needs for crises pregnancies, adoptions. There are also truly remarkable adoptive parents who are willing to care for children who are not physically perfect.
On the other end of the continuum, there are advocates for ailing folk who are dying but not dead yet to ensure that they receive standard care and are not ignored by medical professionals who only want to treat what they can fix, quick draw bean counters, or those a little too anxious to harvest organs.
@Randy7777 - While that may be true, the judicial branch ought not be concerned about partisan politics. Their job, particularly at SCOTUS should be centered on the constitutionality of a law.
@Randy7777 - i was able to get back on my mother’s insurance for an extra year (just turned 26), and that meant i could afford to see my doctor about my anxiety and start taking meds for it. also, my family is very healthconscious (my mother works in a hospital) and we are all about preventative care vs. waiting til you’re about to die before seeing a doctor. i see my PCP once or twice a year, or any time i feel ill. i also see my gynecologist once a year, my eye doctor two or three times because i wear contacts, and my dentist twice a year for regular cleanings. so i also like that preventative care is now available without co-pay.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - my life is already prosperous, thank you very much. Obamacare just made it even better
@flapper_femme_fatale - That kind of “wealth” is not yours, though, since you didn’t earn it.
The problem with government programs is that they demand that people not be bothered by such things as stealing.
If you are happy with that, you are happy with immorality as long as you can benefit from it.
Such a society is not a just society.
Is it the law of the land based on the court, yes. However the majority stretched the idea of taxation beyond proper limits. Consesus does not make it right. The greatest weakness of any government such as our own is the weakness from inside. Furthermore that one side must be law abiding to maintain its moral high ground while the other constantly rewrites and redefifines laws.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I have to wonder how many companies that now give healthcare to their employees will opt out and pay the 2000 dollar tax per employee tax verses the several thousands of dollars they pay per year.
@brown_buffalo - I’d even go back further – President Roosevelt. Good Point
@districtofcalamity - Doesn’t look like Roberts was solely looking at the constitutionality of this law because he had to actually rewrite it in order to make his ruling. It was a stretch to say it was a tax.
@New1E13_15 - Yes – What Roberts ruled was: “The court is not going to be the ultimate decider of this: The voters will be.”
@PrisonerxOfxLove -
“That kind of “wealth” is not yours, though, since you didn’t earn it. ”
the uninsured and broke didn’t earn the wealth spent on their care that they didn’t have to pay for. what’s the difference? as i said, i’d only be against the mandate if health care was denied to those who could not pay for it.
@flapper_femme_fatale - You said you were as prosperous as you wanted to be. And I pointed out that whatever wealth you thought you had came from others.
That has nothing to do with truly needy individuals.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - i never said i was as prosperous as i want to be. i said i am prosperous. and i’m not talking about just money.
there are better things in this life than being rich, and i’m fortunate enough to be most of them.
as for needy? i don’t consider it needy when an individual is capable of having health insurance and refuses to do so, since they’re emergency room visits will be passed on to others. that’s no different than someone refusing to get a job because they’re happy with how much unemployment they receive.