September 14, 2012
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Free Speech
“The Innocence of Muslims,” is a feature-length, low-budget film that outraged Muslim groups. These Muslim groups have unleashed a violence against Americans. One of the Obama administration’s stand on it is to denounce the video and assign an investigation against it. What about America’s Freedom of Speech?
Should America continue to have Freedom of Speech?
Comments (100)
Yes. (It has never ceased to surprise that this question is controversial at all, but it is.)
My question: why is the State Department denouncing free speech instead of denouncing the murder of our ambassador?
Yes America should continue free speech. Those in the other countries are/ were looking for anything to go against the US. They are fanatics looking for any excuse to say0do anything against the US. The countries that say they hate the US are jelouse of our way of life ,the freedom we have and how prosper we are.
It is truly ridiculous to think this was not planned, the video was just an excuse. Our Prez through a US citizen under the bus for practicing his free speech…Free speech is a cherished right.
That’s not exactly true. His exact words were, “While the United States rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, we must all unequivocally oppose the kind of senseless violence that took the lives of these public servants.” He was being peecee about religious sentiments while at the same time saying they were no excuse for violence.
@Kris0logy - I understand free speech but when that free speech goes too far, as in this case, something must be done. I’m sure the maker of this video knew that his actions would cause an uproar. Talk about an uproar of International proportions.
I’m sure the founding fathers never intended free speech to go so far as to get someone killed.
@Ampbreia - I do agree, there is not excuse for violence just because someone else’s opinion. I mean they, the muslim world doesn’t like our religion or our religious freedoms. You don’t see us killing muslims when they burn our flag?
I hate freedom of speech. It’s either, “free to be stupid” or “freedom of confession.” The Bush eras seemed to experiment with that one, and I don’t think it turned out well. None of us know what to say.
Since when did President Obama care about our American rights?
Personally I think those who want to shut the movie down are more anti-Muslim than those who want to protect free speech. They are the ones who think Muslims can’t act like civilized adults.
Yes, free speech should be allowed. The problem is that the person who made this movie had the intent to anger Muslims without really thinking of the consequences that it could cause. I still wouldn’t be taking away the right to free speech, but the director should at lest own up to what he caused.
@olwd - It’s not the entire Muslim world, just the extreme few percent. Just like the one who made the movie.
if the filmmakers are so proud of their speech, why are they in hiding? they’d rather let innocents die?
freedom of speech means i can’t prevent them from speaking… it doesn’t mean i don’t get to think they’re a bunch of hateful bigots who deserves to be strung up by the mob. the Coptic Christian that produced the film is just as hateful as the Muslims who are rioting. both should be roundly condemned by our government. while freedom of speech is an American value, bigotry and demonization aren’t.
@TheSchizoidMan - Thanks
@feedwaterclean - That’s what I’m concerned about also.
@buddy71 - Agreed
@Kris0logy - Agreed – I’m ashamed of our President right now.
@Ampbreia - Listen to what Hillary Clinton is saying. She is the voice of the President and she’s denouncing it. The problem isn’t the video it’s the violence.
@olwd - Our Founding Fathers fought for the freedom of speech because they were silenced by the British government.
@Colorsofthenight - Hate Freedom of Speech? Then I will tell you what you can say on xanga.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - True
@laytexduckie - Should I be shut down if I anger someone? I’m sure someone on xanga has angered you. Should that person be shut down?
@tendollar4ways - Your profile pic makes me want to ask you out on a Christian date.
@flapper_femme_fatale - The film is a hoax. Has anyone even seen it?
@flapper_femme_fatale - Just because you don’t agree with some other group doesn’t make you a bigot. I believe the only people that are going to heaven are those that believe Jesus is God and has accepted Him as Savoir and Lord. Muslims do not believe that. I’m not a bigot by believing that muslims are going to hell because of accepting false teaching.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I haven’t seen it. I looked for it. I also wonder if it even exsists.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - It wouldn’t be very Christian….but I am down. Just none of the hanky panky. I think Halal Chicken would be fitting?
@Randy7777 - No, because you would never know what would anger, sadden, or annoy someone (especially if you don’t know them). The thing is, the director made a film knowingly that he/she is criticizing the prophet Mohammad and even referred to him as a pedophile. It’s silly of him/her to think that it wouldn’t anger anyone.
I know a few who have angered me, but I support their right to say it. It also means I have my full right to call them out on it.
@TheSchizoidMan - We are gonna throw Nakoula Nakoula in jail? I see… You are Sam Basile.
@feedwaterclean - You are Sam Basile…you believe make believe BS our equivalents to the rioting Muslims have cooked up.
@Kris0logy - You are Sam Basile. You really think the President would be defending a Muslim film if produced in Egypt and promoted in Mississippi that cast Jesus as a child molester and riots occured? The Christian equivalents burned down a mosque in Tennessee just cuz… with no movie needed.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Everyone knows you are Sam Basile..
@randomneuralfirings - Typical Sam Basile nonsense from you. Shut down the movie??? It isn’t playing anywhere but the internet. You are most definately
@Randy7777 - You are Sam Basile.
Those idiots rioting are YOUR Brothers. They are you. Sam Ba-Fucking-Basile. Both of you are one in the same. Idiot Sam Basiles ….Puppets on a stick.
@Randy7777 - So what are the odds of anyone in Libya or Egypt having seen it?
@Randy7777 - to my understanding, the creator of this film covered up the purpose every step of the way. they invented a fake title, lied to the actors, and dubbed over their lines. and now, the loser is in hiding. that sounds like someone who knows what they’re doing is wrong.
this film doesn’t simply state that Muslims are going to Hell. it portrays Muhammad as a bastard and homosexual. we have plenty of historical information about him to know that none of those things are true. if you can’t hold your beliefs without promoting lies about the other side, you’re a bigot.
would you be okay with me making a similar film on the life of Jesus Christ? or God Himself?
@PrisonerxOfxLove - trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntgzoE7rU9A
@flapper_femme_fatale - Here’s the whole movie: LINK
When was the last time the Catholic Nuns of Saint Francis of Assisi stormed an embassy an slaughtered the ambassadors?
Excusing the heathen barbarian is inexcusable.
The heathen hoards are rioting in celebration of 9/11. The violence has nothing to do with any film.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Who says their in hiding? ABC, NBC and CBS are not saying much about what is happening. They are absent and our President is absent in all this. 20 countries are in anti american violence and our President is in Las Vegas campainging.
@laytexduckie - My point is I have things to say that would anger Muslims. Do I have an American right to say those things?
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Agreed
@Randy7777 - You have a right, asserting that there is no intent of slander or defamation involved. It’s a very slippery slope because everyone wants to push what they can really say. You can shout the F word as loud as you want in a public area, but you’re not allow to shout, “FIRE” in a movie theater. The gray area is when opinion might turn into slander or defamation. I think that people ought to keep in mind that they can practice their free speech, but understand the consequences that can happen if you do.
Do Muslims have a right to be outraged about this film? Yes. Although, I do not agree with how they responded to it (killing 4 Americans at the US Embassy).
@flapper_femme_fatale - You caused me to dig deeper. That’s why I like xanga. Definition of bigot:
intolerant
person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on
politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different viewsInteresting – It causes me to think that by that defintion if that applies to all true Christians. True Christianity refuses to accept Islam as a way to God. It is believed to be a false religion. If Jesus were here he would denounce it as well.
@laytexduckie - Who gets to determine “Fire in the Theater” speech? Is it classified as such when a group of people get mad? or is it when that groups of people get violent? Why hasn’t our President condemned false movies and such about Jesus? Was it because Christians didn’t break anything? It’s a double standard. What if I make a youtube video that says all Muslim will go to hell because they don’t believe in Jesus? Is that a “Fire in the Theater” speech? What about all the slander that Obama throws at Romney and Romney throws at Obama? -great debate. It makes me think – thanks
@Randy7777 - Well, the “Fire in a theater” is actual law. Because they know that people can abuse that phrase with intent of causing panic. As with this, I don’t know. That’s the really, really gray area with this whole “protection of free speech” thing. Though another law that can get you arrested is if you publicly say that you want to kill the president. I mean, with the whole negative attack ads and everything, I don’t really understand. All I know is that people try to push as much as they can to see how far they get away with without getting detained. There are double standards everywhere, I will agree with that.
@Randy7777 - it’s why i tend to stay away from religion, even if i may be attracted to beliefs on a personal level. i don’t agree with any kind of theology that teaches damnation. it simply doesn’t mesh with my worldview. i have equal amounts of respect for Christianity and Islam.
yes
@Randy7777 -
“Who says their in hiding?”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/nakoula-basseley-nakoula-anti-islam-film_n_1879195.html
“”I have not met him. Sam Bacile, that is not his real name,” Jones said. “I just talked to him on the phone. He is definitely in hiding and does not reveal his identity. He was quite honestly fairly shook up concerning the events and what is happening. A lot of people are not supporting him.”"
@PrisonerxOfxLove - bigotry and hatred don’t require violence.
@randomneuralfirings - I agree with this.
And yes, America should maintain the right to the Freedom of Speech.
Questions of free speech aside, this whole situation once again exposes the obvious: a much larger percentage of Muslims than any other religious group are very sensitive about their religion and will react violently to insults, real or only perceived. If Islam is just like any other religion and has only been hi-jacked by a small minority of hateful assholes, why don’t we see similar situations with every other religion? If all religions teach peace and people are basically the same, no matter their religion, why does Islam seem to have such a problem with violence? Why don’t other religions have similar problems? I would contend that Islam has such a remarkable problem with violence because Islam itself has violent teachings that the Quran itself says are to be followed. Here’s a simple explanation.
The Quran was written in two major periods: the earlier Meccan period and the later Medinan period. In Mecca, Muhammad wasn’t very influential. He didn’t have many followers. In this part of the Quran, we find the innocuous, peaceful verses. Later, in Medina, Muhammad was a military and political leader. What do you know? All the sudden the verses being given take on a much more violent and aggressive tone. Implications for the veracity of Islam aside, this is important. There are two time periods with two flatly contradictory elements. How is the Muslim supposed to know which verses to follow? Should a Muslim pay attention to the peaceful verses and ignore or contextualize the violent ones? Or should a Muslim ignore the peaceful verses and see how they might act on the violent verses? The Quran actually answers this question by giving what is called the doctrine of abrogation. This rule basically says that when two verses conflict, you follow the latest verse. As I said, the peaceful verses came first, and the violent verses came later. Going by the method laid out in the Quran itself, a Muslim looking at two contradictory verses from these two periods would have to follow the verse that came later, which would probably be a violent verse.
Thus, you have two very distinct points of view on Islam in the Muslim community around the world. Thankfully, most Muslims ignore or contextualize the violent verses and pay attention to the peaceful ones. The violent Muslims are the ones that are, sadly, reading the Quran as it says it should be read. So, I firmly believe that Islam really is a violent religion.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Truth has to take a stand.
@singlephoton - Well said. The Quran does teach violence against infidels. We’re seeing the fruit of the Quran.
@flapper_femme_fatale - I’m personnally outraged that this administration has turned the focus of these riots towards a video. The Obama administration says that these attacks are not directed at the USA. That statement is totally blinded.
@flapper_femme_fatale - That fact is that Muslims are slaughtering the infidel as they have always done since the 7th century.
When was the last time there were world-wide Christian riots?
The biggest Christian gatherings are to go see someone like preacher Billy Graham or the pope. At those meetings there is love and peace.
Yo that movie was fucking amazing.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Fully agree. If there’s a link, post it. Let us, the public, review it. (Actually I think Rose might wanna see it – she likes anything controversial).
@dw817 - I did post a link in one of my previous comments. Thank you for your interest.
@JadeMaster2 - Yeah, go back 800 years to complain about the Christians trying to liberate their lands from Muslim conquest.
Islam started in Arabia and took over the entire Roman Empire outside of Europe. Those lands had been Christian for over 600 years. Constantinople was finally conquered in 1453.
The Jihad of today is exactly the same as the Jihad during Mohammed’s time. Slaughter the infidel.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - And maybe you should start your own blog on your own page so we don’t tie up all of Randy’s space. We can yell at each other on neutral turf that way.
@JadeMaster2 - What you are saying in far too many words is that you can’t tell the difference be good and evil.
Christianity is the dynamo that powered the rise of Western Civilization, the greatest, most prosperous and just society in human history.
Look at Afghanistan. That is the world ruled by Islam.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - …and, you’re talking to a practicing Pagan….
@flapper_femme_fatale - There is no Christian hatred. There is Muslim hatred and it is deadly.
Christians don’t condemn people they’ve never met. That is a lie.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - like i said, hatred doesn’t need violence. just because Christians don’t riot, that doesn’t make them any more loving. you can’t be loving while you’re condemning people you’ve never met. i know you personally to be very hateful and judgmental. it may make you more civilized that you don’t physically attack people you disagree with, but that doesn’t make you any less of a bigot.
from my agnostic perspective, Islam and Christianity are both horrible ideologies that give human beings an excuse to demonize anyone who is different, and they both have the potential to cause pain and strife. i’m not sure why i should hate Islam more, since Christians have caused me far more pain than any other religion.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - you condemn me quite frequently. have we ever met? nope.
and yes, there is Christian hatred. no religion or belief system is immune from hatred.
Randy, I honestly am sorry I yanked his chain. Forgive me.
@Randy7777 - well… they aren’t. British and German embassies have also been attacked. it’s an attack on the West, in general. we’re just the most popular target, because we’ve made sure that we represent the West.
@Randy7777 - then own up to your bigotry. stop trying to pretend that you can love someone while simultaneously believing that they deserve to burn in Hell because they don’t believe in exactly what you believe. because in the end, the only edge you have over these violent Muslims is that you won’t go out and kill non-believers. that makes you more peaceful… but not more loving. i’m agnostic. Muslims would bring pain and suffering upon me now. you Christians are content to wait for me to suffer until the afterlife. from my perspective, you’re all hateful.
@flapper_femme_fatale - I have never condemned you. That is another one of your lies. Is calling you out on your lies condemnation?
I consider it a needed rebuke, but only because you condemn innocent people by accusing them of being haters.
So you are guilty of what you are accusing me of.
That is the very definition of hypocrisy. Is that condemnation? No. It’s just stating the facts.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - you’re kidding, right? you’ve accused me of being a Socialist seeking the destruction of America and all of Western civilization. do you have retrograde amnesia?
you’re pretty open about your hateful attitudes towards liberals, Muslims, any non-Christian, etc. i don’t know why you’re shying away from it now. just as you’re entitled to your beliefs, i am entitled to mine.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Informing you of the repercussion of your barbaric worldview is my loving duty.
It is liberalism, Islam and atheism that are hateful, not I.
Liberalism destroys millions of lives over decades and centuries of time. Look what Islam is doing now. And what it is doing now is what it has always done.
The greatest mass murders in the history of mankind were committed by atheists.
How does recounting those crimes make me hateful?
i blame the guy who made the film. what an idiot than again i do expect that from an ex-convict.
theres just some things you should express and some things you shouldnt.
my condolences go out to the 4 people who died. they’re the innocent ones.
.@Kris0logy - I totally agree with you
@JadeMaster2 - Sensible people lost faith in paganism 2000 years ago. Those people powered the rise of Christianity.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - not to put too fine a point on it, you are what’s wrong with the world today.
@JadeMaster2 - What is wrong with the world to day is postmodernism. That is the philosophy that governs your own thinking. Postmodernism is the thinking that grips civilizations when they are collapsing.
The Christian worldview is the salvation of mankind and is diametrically opposed to postmodernism.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - aren’t you just a little authoritarian fount of trivia?
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I tire of this drivel, welcome to the world of blocked.
I didn’t read through all the comments but my opinion? It’s not the video. It’s an excuse that people are making because they don’t understand how we, America, are so hated. I think our leaders need to wake up.
No
@JadeMaster2 - Why is it that I, a Christian, am tolerant of your opinion, though I argue against it? But you, a pagan, cannot tolerate the Christian worldview. You insult me and block me instead of offer a rational defense of your views.
There is absolutely no reason for Christians to give up their wonderful civilization to people who are so hateful and intolerant.
@JadeMaster2 - Taking a position and defending it not being authoritarian, it’s being civilized. Paganism hearkens to pre-modern barbarism where slavery, bone grinding poverty and a short, brutal life were all that most human beings could expect.
Christianity brought science, civilization and the joy of life to heights unimaginable to pre-modern pagans.
First of all, you cannot blame an entire population of Muslims just because of the idiotic reactions of some Muslims. I am a Muslim and I would have not acted in the same way a few others did. Most of us Muslims in the middle east are disappointed in those Muslims who killed the ambassador because that is not what our religion teaches us.
Second, I understand there’s freedom of speech but what the hell happened to respecting other religions? Respecting different cultures? Not listening to stereotypes? Peace?
What I like about the country I’m currently living in and the school I go to, and this may shock most of you, is that all the Americans, Canadians, Europeans, Arabs, Asians, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Jews, Hindus etc are all FRIENDS! Hell, a few of my bffs are Muslims and some are Christians! Nothing wrong with that! I wish my friends and classmates the best whenever their holidays come around, and they do the same for me as well! I mean, we’re just teenagers and we know how to live in peace! Why can’t the rest of the world learn to do the same without insulting each other and stereotyping them or resulting to violence?
Freedom of speech, as I was taught, does not allow one to yell “Fire” in a movie theater when there is in fact no fire. Was there a fire?
@PrisonerxOfxLove - uh-huh. well, as i said, we’re both entitled to our opinions of each other. you think i’m bent on destroying civilization, and i think you’re a hateful bigot.
@mcbery - Our leaders are very awake in this. I think that is the problem. The Obama administration’s statement on this is: “This uprising is not against America it’s against one video.” Come on, I for one am not that stupid. Obama is politicizing this and it is fueling the situation. Extreme Islam hates Christianity and Judaism. They are at war with us. I’m sure that on any given day there are many videos and blogs saying negative things against Muslems.
@JustAnotherMuggle - I appreciate your words. If more muslims would rise up and say the same thing these thugs and terrorists would be silenced.
@vexations - I don’t think this applies here. If my neighbors spreads lies about me or a group I belong to, does that give me the right to claim they came in my theater and yelled “fire” because I went on a rampage, murdered and destroyed? I sure wouldn’t have the President of the USA coming to my defense and blaming the neighbors.
@mcbery - Yes, Yes, Yes – I applaud your answer – thank you
@PrisonerxOfxLove - You are so right about postmodernism. In that view there is no absolute truth, thus what the masses believe must be true. That is not the case. There is absolute truth and it’s only found within the pages of the Bible – in which this country was founded upon.
I think there are laws against libel and slander. @Randy7777 -
@flapper_femme_fatale - My opinion of you is that I like you. It’s your ideas that I have addressed.
Gosh, if America stopped having freedom of speech, what would happen to Xanga? =D
@laytexduckie - I know it’s not all of them. The radical Muslims are also the ones that form terrorist groups.
@Randy7777 - I know that, but do you think when they penned the Bill of Rights that they seriously thought one day someone will make a video or say something that would cause an international incident? I highly doubt it. I’m not saying this freedom should be removed, by any means, but when people negligently do stuff like this they should be held responsible to some degree.
With freedom comes responsibility. The movie was ill concieved at best and not worth a mention. By their actions these extreemists have promoted the very thing they oppose. In this case, two wrongs shall not negate a right.
@olwd - Who can predict what makes people mad? This movie was out since June. It’s very suspicous that 9/11 was when it was blamed for the violence.
@Randy7777 - Postmodernists also believe that any claim to objective truth is a claim to power and is therefore, oppression. That’s why that fellow called me authoritarian.
And because any kind of intellectual or moral authority is itself immoral in the postmodern worldview, that fellow felt justified in banning me from his existence.
The Communists banned 10s of millions of people from their exist either by slaughtering them or by sending them to the Gulag.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Good Comparision.
@olwd - Yeah. I just wish others would understand that too (like how we wish those rioting in the Middle East should understand that not all, or even most, Americans aren’t like the ones they saw in the video).
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Christianity brought science and civilisation to society? *ROTFLMAO* What a crock of shit. Christianity had nothing to do with either.
@JustAnotherMuggle - I would hope you are not in Canada. I have written my MP asking that all Muslims be removed from Canadian soil, by force if necessary. We don’t want them here.
@christao408 – Xanga does not have freedom of speech. Ask Dan @TheTheologiansCafe. He is master of censorship. @Flapper_femme_fatale is his apprentice in the art of censorship. Both do not allow anyone to disagree with them, which clearly displays their limited intellect. If it cannot be rebutted, silence it forever. I give very honourable mention to @Prisonerxofxlove for being one of the greatest censors of all time. Allow me to advise you morons that all of the above individuals wipe their asses with your beloved US Constitution. They are the greatest of hypocrites. No better than the scumbag Muslims you rail at.
@Randy7777 - I hadn’t and probably never will see the movie.
@laytexduckie - Sooooo true!
That movie had absolutely nothing to do with those embassy riots. The attacks on those embassies were planned in advance where the movie was used as a pretext. That movie was on YouTube for a good two months before the riots and all hell didn’t break loose until, of all days, on 9/11. To be frank, it makes no sense at all to censor the movie from YouTube. If that were the case, then every movie on there would need to be censored whenever someone takes umbrage. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever to riot and commit murder just because of someone’s opinion.