May 7, 2011
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WWYD?
What Would You Do? I watched this show last night and I didn’t know what to think of it, so I want to ask you WWYD?
Scenario:
A manager is interviewing a person for a job at the restaurant. The interview is going good and the person looks like he’s getting the job. The manager then says, “We have a uniform code here and it doesn’t include your head dress. You can work here but you have to follow our dress code.
Does a restaurant have the right to enforce their own dress code?
or
Is it discrimination to have your employees not show their religious affiliation while on duty?
Comments (50)
You have to assimilate. I think a manager would be cruel to enforce such a restriction, but it is perfectly legal.
Workers represent the image of the employer. So employees have to be okay with that going in.
Depends on the restaurant that the person is applying for and the head dress the person is wearing. Here on South Beach for example, I’ve seen a Jewish man working as server wearing his cap and I’ve seen a muslin girl with only her hair covered. Now, I doubt if a more expensive restaurant would tolerate that and for sure they would be much more picky with their dress code.
@The_Eyes_Of_A_Painter - I think that sums up somewhat.
OP:
Though I think if it has to do with religious reasons..then maybe they don’t have the right but again, it depends.
@The_Eyes_Of_A_Painter - Quinones said it was discrimination if the restaurant refused to let the person wear their head gear.
@Hinase - Thanks
@jmallory - How far could it go? Rasmatarirans believe it is agaisnt their religion to wash their hair. Quinones said that it was discrimination if the restaurant made a person take off his head gear.
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - Agreed but that doesn’t sound like the law of the land.
@Randy7777 - Ownership of private property is the law of the land. The owner of property may conduct legal business with it as he so wishes.
@Randy7777 - Someone who imposes their own wishes over the wishes of the property owner has usurped ownership from the original owner. That is theft.
I think that the ower of a business should be able to set the rules of dress and conduct. Otherwise it infringes on the rights of the business owner to set their own standards.. If they decide to waive the dress code to certain individuals that is also their right.
@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - Agreed
Did you hear about the owner of a company who imposed a no smoking rule to his employees even when they were not working? He gave the smokers a year to quit and then let anyone go who continued to smoke even if they were long time employees. I do think that is his decision to make….good or bad!
@dingdongdingbat - Agreed. It should be up to the business owners as to how their employees dress.
@dingdongdingbat - That is interesting. That’s a lot longer time than I gave my 17 year old to quit. -lol
It would be legal, but I still wouldn’t work for them. And then I’m not even a full time kippah wearer.
I would decline the job, probably with some anger in my voice.
Business owners absolutely should have the right to run their businesses in the way that will be most profitable for them and to not hire those who might detract rather than attract customers. Isn’t that why their in business to begin with? But if you can’t discriminate in hiring because of religion, how can you legally refuse to hire a Sikh wearing a turban or a Muslim woman wearing a Chador?
What would I do? Simply not hire anyone who is not dressed the way I want. No explanation. Covered with tattoos, piercings, head coverings or immodestly dressed, whatever …the boss has the right to choose who he doesn’t want to have work for him.
May I ask what you would do?
i think business that have a dress code should be flexible to have employees wear their religious head gear as long as it does not interfere with the work they do and that it is safe to do so. i worked for a very large HMO and they had a dress policy. but if it pertained to your religion and it didnt cause a safety problem you could wear your religious clothing and that included facial jewelry.
but i wonder, based on some of the “uniforms” that some restaurants have the workers wear ( i am thinking “hooters”) i just can not see a woman in a head dress working there. but i am sure none would apply for a job that was so restrictive.
i think that kind of dress code the restaurant want to impose should be clear from the beginning.. if that is the case, i don’t think anyone that will not compromise their own religious dress code will not apply in the first place
@maniacsicko - Makes me wonder if it was posted clearly if it wouldn’t invite the ACLU to come in and bring a law suit against the establishment. I agree with you that it should be clear from the beginning.
@buddy71 - Here’s another senario: A Rasmuntarian applies and wants a job. Their religion forbids them from washing their hair. How far does freedom of religion go?
@Lucy_or_Ethel - I would hand the “to be” employee the code of conduct and uniform regulations sheet before the interview even started. If the “to be” employee signed it the interview would continue. If not I would say thank you but no thank you.
@Lucy_or_Ethel - I totally agree.
@ArmyWife4Life2007 - Really? Question: Has the military relaxed its uniform code? If you have a religious symbol it can be worn with the uniform?
@hevcoh - If the manager says ok you can wear the kippah but you have to wear the restaurants hat over it, would you work at the place?
Yes a resturant has a right to have a dress code and it is the persons choice wheather or not they take the job.
@tymedancer - Thanks
They don’t want employees to be distracting or to stand out too much. I can understand that, but it can get out of hand.
@Randy7777 - i just realised my sentence was like triple negative “if that is the case, i don’t think anyone that will not compromise their own religious dress code will not apply in the first place”
it should be:
if that is the case, i don’t think anyone that will not compromise their own religious dress code will apply in the first place
or this is also correct, i guess:
if that is the case, i think anyone that will not compromise their own religious dress code will not apply in the first place
Haha.. oh well..
@Randy7777 - i am not sure if that would meet health and safety codes to work in a restaurant. again i think some flexibility, but as long as the business has a clear dress code and it is applied to everyone and no laws are broken they have every right to not hire someone. but as i said before, i dont think many would try to be hired at some place that has an established uniform code.
this is a good subject, though.
religious discrimination was legal last i checked.
to not have such discrimination about appearance would create brand distortion. even if it was illegal to discriminate, the religious aspect would have to not interfere with the ability to perform the position. but i would expect all religions/positions to be denigrated equally. meaning if one can’t wear head covering, and it is for a brand reason rather than a costume/physics reason. then people of other faiths couldn’t be allowed to show their faith either. meaning, no crosses, stars of david… etc.
meh, i don’t patronize many places where people wear crosses. and many in the category feel similarly about guys with long hair. so, i bet the feeling is mutual. i wouldn’t be surprised if airlines made ‘airline ticket sales persons’ have uncovered heads during their shifts for similar thinking. it is within their capability of company policy though it might not be ethical.
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For me personally, it depends on the type of head dress. A kippah I just don’t think it’s big enough to cause any issues. Same with some female hair coverings. In fact, some of the Muslims’ coverings would probably seem more sanitary as it pulls the hair back and keeps it out of the way. I think the Amish follow the typical rule that hats (at least for men) are removed inside, but those bonnets seem kinda annoying but I’d let them keep it on. I don’t know the names of the coverings, but so long as no headdress gets in the way I don’t see one that is a health issue except the Muslim dude (where the garment may get into food). As for turbans and that giant African head dress, well those just kinda scare me like they’d knock me over with it. But again no health issues.
But for the fully covered up Muslim woman (or non Muslim woman who likes that) well, honestly I’d have a problem with it. In America, it is part of our social customs to not cover the face. And sometimes our customs are okay. It’s an issue of trust. (I do believe women look beautiful in them and showing only their eyes), but I think a lot of customers would have issues with it. How do I know her face isn’t diseased? Is that logical for me, probably not. Would I hire her still, I don’t know. I think I’d put her into a position where maybe she wasn’t serving food. I also wouldn’t hire that “Lizard” guy with the forked tongue to serve people. Not because of their religion, but because it is so against American customs that I think customers would have issues. (Of course, that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t hire and see how it goes, either.)
@Randy7777 - Yes. Also, depending on the hat, I might not even need to wear my kippah at work. You see, the mitzvah is not kippah wearing, it’s head covering. Maimonides wore a turban, my grandfather wore a fedora, one of my brothers wears baseball hats a lot… kippot came to be to have a rather comfortable alternative to other hats.
@Randy7777 - I’m not 100% certain of the Military’s position on religious symbols/head dresses/etc., probably because my husband doesn’t practice any religion and I stand in the “Other” section. I haven’t seen or heard anyone complain about not being able to represent their religion though. I know they pass out flyers and things promoting the churches on and off post, to try and meet everyone’s needs. Anyway, Chaplain’s wear a cross on their uniform…
I think the business owners have the right to enforce a dress code. They also have to follow the law. And if I’m not mistaken, an employer cannot discriminate against race, religion, gender, etc. But what if the business owner knows that if he has a person wearing some kind of religious identification he will lose business?
@yourkbear - Thanks – Have a great Mother’s day
@maniacsicko - LOL – I think you are right.
@buddy71 - Thanks
@lenybobsyouruncle - Good point. What if an Arab with a head dress wanted to be a security officer at the airport? I don’t think so.
@TiredSoVeryTired - Thank you for your comment. There needs to be a balance. You’re right if it’s a small head gear it would be ok and maybe a restuarant hat would go over it.
@hevcoh - Thank you for that insight. I appreciate it.
@ArmyWife4Life2007 - Just curious. I know when I was in the Navy, no one could wear anything that wasn’t part of the military uniform code. Just wondering if that changed.
@Jewelbeetle - Thanks
If they have a uniform, it has to be enforced. Otherwise, employees can come into work wearing pajamas and have tattoos on their faces. There are some places where that kind of leniency is appropriate and there are others where it is not. If the employer makes a special case for this individual, he’d have to make special cases for everyone else as well.
I was in the Navy too and you cannot add anything to your uniform at all, I doubt that has changed.
The employer has the right to decide how his employees will represent his business. It would be different if the employee complied with the dress code and then the employer later found out that they were… say, a Jew or Muslim, and fired them because he didn’t agree with their beliefs.